Dangerous lies?

[Doby45]

I don't know anyone who teaches to hit the elevator button, and that practice is expressly forbidden in the written instructional materials. I do know people teach the dump all the air first method.

The hit the elevator button may be MISTAKENLY taught around the world because of poor instructional practice.

In typical OW pool sessions, students are overweighted and plopped on the knees for instruction. When the instructor is done with a session and the students are still overweighted and on the knees with empty BCDs, it is necessary to add air to the BCD in order to get buoyant enough to begin the ascent. Such instructors are unintentionally teaching this technique, even though they will deny it.

Lots of stuff mistakenly being taught around the world. Not all instructors have your integrity.

 

[boulderjohn]

Lots of stuff mistakenly being taught around the world. Not all instructors have your integrity.

It really isn't about integrity in this case. It's a well-intentioned mistake.

I have an article waiting in the queue to be published by PADI about this topic--using key principles of athletic coaching in instruction. The article focuses on a critical aspect of good coaching--making sure practice sessions require "game-like" actions. If your practice has players perform skills in a way that is different from the way they perform in a game, they will learn bad habits and perform badly in the game. I became certified by national organizations to coach both volleyball and soccer, and that principle was emphasized in my training for each.

Let me give an example from soccer to show what I mean. If you watch a youth soccer practice being led by an untrained coach, you will typically see a portion of the practice devoted to passing skills. Players will pair up, face each other, and pass the ball back and forth. That is simply horrible coaching. The players are being taught to watch the ball all the way as it approaches, wait for it to arrive, stop the ball dead at their feet (or pop it up in the air briefly to make it more interesting), and pass it directly back the way it came. In a real game, they must look away as the ball approaches so that they can see what is happening around them, move to the ball to beat their opponents to it, and then either tap the ball to a place where only they can get it or pass it directly to a teammate in another direction. The more players practice that drill, the more thoroughly those bad habits will be ingrained. In contrast, playing a game of keep away is much more gamelike--and more fun as well.

The same sort of thing happens in scuba instruction. A well meaning instructor will tell students that they should never, ever use the inflate button to ascend. Then that same instructor will conclude a pool session with students overweighted and on the knees, at which point they must push the inflator button in order to get enough air in the BCD so they can ascend. What the instructor teaches verbally is thus contradicted by what the students practice because of the on-the-knees instructional practice, but the well-meaning instructor does not realize it.

My article goes on to list a number of skills in which the students must practice incorrect (non-gamelike) methods because they are taught while overweighted and on the knees.

 

[Rred]

Kel-
Your LDS and hydro facility both deserve kudos (name names!) for being bright enough to do + certifications.

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

Depending on the inflator, that might be true. Pressing the red button will, in fact, take you right to the surface. Not a good idea though.




Not entirely a waste. There's a safety advantage if you are not diving to the NDL.

Also an advantage with many repeated dives you can have shorter surface time.

 

[pepperbelly]

It really isn't about integrity in this case. It's a well-intentioned mistake.

I have an article waiting in the queue to be published by PADI about this topic--using key principles of athletic coaching in instruction. The article focuses on a critical aspect of good coaching--making sure practice sessions require "game-like" actions. If your practice has players perform skills in a way that is different from the way they perform in a game, they will learn bad habits and perform badly in the game. I became certified by national organizations to coach both volleyball and soccer, and that principle was emphasized in my training for each.

Let me give an example from soccer to show what I mean. If you watch a youth soccer practice being led by an untrained coach, you will typically see a portion of the practice devoted to passing skills. Players will pair up, face each other, and pass the ball back and forth. That is simply horrible coaching. The players are being taught to watch the ball all the way as it approaches, wait for it to arrive, stop the ball dead at their feet (or pop it up in the air briefly to make it more interesting), and pass it directly back the way it came. In a real game, they must look away as the ball approaches so that they can see what is happening around them, move to the ball to beat their opponents to it, and then either tap the ball to a place where only they can get it or pass it directly to a teammate in another direction. The more players practice that drill, the more thoroughly those bad habits will be ingrained. In contrast, playing a game of keep away is much more gamelike--and more fun as well.

The same sort of thing happens in scuba instruction. A well meaning instructor will tell students that they should never, ever use the inflate button to ascend. Then that same instructor will conclude a pool session with students overweighted and on the knees, at which point they must push the inflator button in order to get enough air in the BCD so they can ascend. What the instructor teaches verbally is thus contradicted by what the students practice because of the on-the-knees instructional practice, but the well-meaning instructor does not realize it.

My article goes on to list a number of skills in which the students must practice incorrect (non-gamelike) methods because they are taught while overweighted and on the knees.

John, it's called muscle memory. I think it's actually more training your subconscious. When I was a cop back in the '80s we said to train like you will fight- because you will definitely fight like you train.
In an emergency reflex has to take over because it may be next to impossible to think logically and calmly.

 

[boulderjohn]

John, it's called muscle memory. I think it's actually more training your subconscious. When I was a cop back in the '80s we said to train like you will fight- because you will definitely fight like you train.
In an emergency reflex has to take over because it may be next to impossible to think logically and calmly.

I agree.

 

[Curtis C]

I've heard this one a few times. But it reminds me of the time I spent 10 days on a liveaboard in the Maldives with a fellow who owns a dive shop in Florida. He kept on criticizing my equipment choices ... didn't like the DSS backplate/wing I was using. Didn't like the Hollis reg, or the OMS Slipstream fins. Kept on about how he'd never trust his life to anything other than ScubaPro gear. I kept pointing out to him that, of course not ... you're a ScubaPro dealer ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Don't you know that deep down you want the best? Don't they have a convincing tag line for all their ads? I do have a few Scubapro regs and like them very much, but I have lots of others that are just as good. At least to me. And there is something about Scubapro dealers.

I have had dive shop owners (friends of mine) comment about my equipment all the time. Not to me though, usually to people that are taking interest in my equipment. He only has that hose set up because he is a technical diver... Only technical divers use a bp/w... I think the real reason for dislike is there is no margin in bp/w sales. Or when they talk about hog regs. They tell a story that they had a instructor buy them because he could do all the service himself and guess what? He hated them. He could never get them tuned properly and none of the ease of service was true... Or that their tech doesn't feel the quality of the internal components are as good.. Maybe that story they tell of the hog buying instructor is true (of course said instructor replaced them with atomics) but I doubt thats the real reason they don't carry them. Again I believe it relates to a lack of profit margin.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have had dive shop owners (friends of mine) comment about my equipment all the time. Not to me though, usually to people that are taking interest in my equipment. He only has that hose set up because he is a technical diver... Only technical divers use a bp/w... I think the real reason for dislike is there is no margin in bp/w sales. Or when they talk about hog regs. They tell a story that they had a instructor buy them because he could do all the service himself and guess what? He hated them. He could never get them tuned properly and none of the ease of service was true... Or that their tech doesn't feel the quality of the internal components are as good.. Maybe that story they tell of the hog buying instructor is true (of course said instructor replaced them with atomics) but I doubt thats the real reason they don't carry them. Again I believe it relates to a lack of profit margin.

A shop where I worked did sell technical gear, and on an item by item value, the markup was not really any different from any other BCD. They did, however, push people into other gear, at first "accidentally" and later intentionally.

• Accidentally: All the sales people used jacket style BCDs when they were diving, and they did not understand BP/W. Even if they tried to be objective, that bias was absolutely bound to come through. A number of research projects have agreed that an individual's bias will be perceptible even when the individual is reading from a script.
• Intentionally: A marketing workshop (which I attended) taught them that if they identified specific items of gear and were able to jack up the sales on those specific items, the manufacturer would further discount those items and thus increase the profit margin. The store floor was designed to highlight the identified items, the sales staff was required to steer customers that way, and the instructors were required to wear them while instructing, telling the students they chose those items because they were the best you could buy (even if they never used those items in their personal diving).

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

Exactly. So for the same depth and bottom time, nitrox is 'safer', understand that I think nothing about diving is safe, only that it can be done safely. Nitrox helps to make diving safer.

Hah!! The biggest lie of all. "Diving is safe, and anyone can do it".

If you dive nitrox xx% to the tables of air, its safer (than air).
If you dive nitrox xx% to the tables of nitrox xx% you get longer bottom time (than air).

Anything inbetween , its both safer and you get longer bottom time (than on air).


So nitrox can be both safer and give you more bottom time.

 

[Freewillow]

If you dive nitrox xx% to the tables of air, its safer (than air).
If you dive nitrox xx% to the tables of nitrox xx% you get longer bottom time (than air).

Anything inbetween , its both safer and you get longer bottom time (than on air).


So nitrox can be both safer and give you more bottom time.

Interesting but I have never seen a diver doing the "inbetween" alternative