Dangerous lies?

[MXGratefulDiver]

...and the all-time classic: " You should be fine" Ta-DAAA!

... that one can most definitely kill you ...

Don't Worry - It Will Be OK - ScubaBoard

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

More on the deepest dive first issue....

A couple of years ago I was on the liveaboard Spirit of Freedom in Australia. At the beginning of the trip, the man in charge of diving got all customers and crew together for the first briefing, and in that briefing he said that, because of a "PADI rule," we were forbidden to go deeper on a dive than we had gone on any previous dive that day. Our dives had to be progressively shallower. All the other crew members were instructors, and they were present when he said it. I did not object openly, but I did take him aside and told him that PADI had long ago dropped that theory, and that it had been nearly 15 years since the workshop had determined there was no physiological reason for the rule. He admitted that PADI had nothing to do with it--it was a company policy that no dive could be deeper than a previous dive. As the trip went on, there was not much chance to violate this rule--the sites they went to were progressively shallower throughout the day, and the first site was usually pretty shallow to begin with.

I checked my logbook from the time I did a liveaboard in the same area 15 years before, and I did much deeper dives back then. It was obvious to me that the purpose of the rule was to make sure no one did any dive that presented any danger of DCS hit screwing up the trip.

That theory was pretty well confirmed on our briefing before the dives on the last day, when he said that we would be flying out of Lizard Island the next day (very low altitude), and because of a "PADI rule" (that again does not exist), no one could dive within 24 hours of the flight.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

"Buying and diving with used equipment will kill you"

I've heard this one a few times. But it reminds me of the time I spent 10 days on a liveaboard in the Maldives with a fellow who owns a dive shop in Florida. He kept on criticizing my equipment choices ... didn't like the DSS backplate/wing I was using. Didn't like the Hollis reg, or the OMS Slipstream fins. Kept on about how he'd never trust his life to anything other than ScubaPro gear. I kept pointing out to him that, of course not ... you're a ScubaPro dealer ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Dan]

I did not draw the conclusion that every diver with a mask on the forehead is panicked, you did that. I made the assumption that every diver who is panicked removes their mask, often by placing it on their forehead. I could further refine it by saying that distressed divers remove their mask. And sometimes happy divers remove their mask. In my experience as someone who has seen thousands and thousands of divers in the water, some of whom were distressed, a diver with a mask on his forehead deserves further questioning.

Sure, it irritates you to be questioned. Imagine how it would irritate the widow if I didn't question the guy with his mask on his forehead and just let him drown. I'd rather irritate you a million times than her once.

Except for this diver. She ripped her mask down to her neck, spit off her regulator, rejected another diver attempt to shove a spare regulator to her mouth & just shot up to the surface.

 

[boulderjohn]

Except for this diver. She ripped her mask down to her neck, spit off her regulator, rejected another diver attempt to shove a spare regulator to her mouth & just shot up to the surface.

I'm not clear on how she got to the surface because of all the bubbles. She was obviously overweighted and not not neutrally buoyant at the beginning of the ascent. She is trying to ascend under those conditions using a bicycle kick and waving her arms, which is all pretty ineffective. I assume it is the person with the mounted GoPro (probably) who tries to give her the alternate, and I will further assume that he is also hauling her to the surface as he does, otherwise I don't see how she would have made it.

The video does support what has been said--the panicked diver rejects equipment. It supports what I said about it as well--you take that rejection not by itself but with the other accompanying signs. She would have been in obvious panic from all the other signs even if she had kept her mask in place.

 

[boulderjohn]

Except for this diver. She ripped her mask down to her neck, spit off her regulator, rejected another diver attempt to shove a spare regulator to her mouth & just shot up to the surface.

After writing what I did above, I thought of a dangerous lie that MIGHT be what we are really seeing in this video.

In this video, we see the diver swimming while close to neutrally buoyant at the moment the ascend signal is given. She should be able to ascend at that point. The camera moves away from her for a moment, and when it returns, she is much deeper than she was before, and she is struggling to ascend without success. What happened in the meantime that led to this near fatality? I have a pretty good idea.

Many instructors and warm water DMs teach the ascent incorrectly, telling divers to dump ALL the air out of the BCD first and THEN begin to swim up. That works fine if you are properly weighted in a 3mm suit. It does not work if you over overweighted in a 7mm suit. It might not even work if you are properly weighted in a 7mm suit.

I saw this for myself when diving with a young woman in a 7mm suit. It was the first time I had ever seen her dive, and I did not know her history. We signaled to ascend, and she immediately raised her inflator hose, dumped all her air, and started to sink. She kicked furiously, but she continued to sink. I rushed over, held her, put some air back into her BCD, and we began a proper ascent, dumping air out a little at a time as she became more buoyant. She said she had learned to dive in the tropics, and this was her first dive with that much neoprene and that much lead. Her instructor had indeed taught her to dump all her air before ascending.

That may be the most dangerous lie in this thread.

 

[AdivingBel]

What you say "the first thing they (panicked diver) do is get rid of the mask (by shoving it up on their forehead) may be true. That does not mean that every diver that has pushed their mask to their forehead is panicked.

Being asked if you're O.K. by the crew is always appreciated. Being reminded not to MOF or reg out in rough water is fine and safety conscious. Being barked at about MOF or reg out while hanging on a tagline waiting to re-board in calm water is a sign someone on the boat is bored (and the sound they're hearing is their tip shrinking). A little judgement and consideration goes a long ways. Be nice. All IMHO.

 

[uncfnp]

Except for this diver. She ripped her mask down to her neck, spit off her regulator, rejected another diver attempt to shove a spare regulator to her mouth & just shot up to the surface.

There are several threads discussing that video. This is probably the most detailed...

Diver Panic (Video)

 

[Doby45]

After writing what I did above, I thought of a dangerous lie that MIGHT be what we are really seeing in this video.

In this video, we see the diver swimming while close to neutrally buoyant at the moment the ascend signal is given. She should be able to ascend at that point. The camera moves away from her for a moment, and when it returns, she is much deeper than she was before, and she is struggling to ascend without success. What happened in the meantime that led to this near fatality? I have a pretty good idea.

Many instructors and warm water DMs teach the ascent incorrectly, telling divers to dump ALL the air out of the BCD first and THEN begin to swim up. That works fine if you are properly weighted in a 3mm suit. It does not work if you over overweighted in a 7mm suit. It might not even work if you are properly weighted in a 7mm suit.

I saw this for myself when diving with a young woman in a 7mm suit. It was the first time I had ever seen her dive, and I did not know her history. We signaled to ascend, and she immediately raised her inflator hose, dumped all her air, and started to sink. She kicked furiously, but she continued to sink. I rushed over, held her, put some air back into her BCD, and we began a proper ascent, dumping air out a little at a time as she became more buoyant. She said she had learned to dive in the tropics, and this was her first dive with that much neoprene and that much lead. Her instructor had indeed taught her to dump all her air before ascending.

That may be the most dangerous lie in this thread.

While you very well may be right, the other theory is the exact opposite. Diver being new is told to hit the "elevator button" to start the ascent and instead of hitting the elevator up, the diver hits the down button and flips her **** when she starts sinking like a rock.

 

[boulderjohn]

While you very well may be right, the other theory is the exact opposite. Diver being new is told to hit the "elevator button" to start the ascent and instead of hitting the elevator up, the diver hits the down button and flips her **** when she starts sinking like a rock.

I don't know anyone who teaches to hit the elevator button, and that practice is expressly forbidden in the written instructional materials. I do know people teach the dump all the air first method.

The hit the elevator button may be MISTAKENLY taught around the world because of poor instructional practice.

In typical OW pool sessions, students are overweighted and plopped on the knees for instruction. When the instructor is done with a session and the students are still overweighted and on the knees with empty BCDs, it is necessary to add air to the BCD in order to get buoyant enough to begin the ascent. Such instructors are unintentionally teaching this technique, even though they will deny it.