DIR-F Lite - "Essentials of Diving"

[TSandM]

That's why I said I think you have to do a PADI/NAUI/SSI OW course first. I mean, I wasn't even sure I would LIKE scuba diving. There is no WAY I would have paid more or put more time into my original OW certification.

 

[StSomewhere]

Back on topic, its the typical business problem: Without differentiation the only thing left to compete on is price. Why not have 5thd-x, GUE, etc. take on the upper end of OW training, since the other agencies seem to have vacated that space in an effort to turn out lots of divers at a low cost.

I don't know if an GUE-OW course would fly.

Check out the price of the 5thd-x DIR-based Rec 1 course. Sure its four DIR-based courses with DIR gear rental rolled into one, but it will still take an educated student to be able to see the value in that approach vs. the $149 or $99 OW specials they see everywhere else.

I agree that it will be interesting to watch whether GUE will continue to stand behind their BOW-DIR class in light of their, ahem, organizational issues. On one hand, I read where JJ is only interested in teaching the top echelon and not the masses, on the other hand every issue of PADI's Sport Diver has those "H: Why We Dive" ads.

I think maybe you have to go through the usual course, at the usual cost, and during it or subsequently realize that you were taught "diving lite" and there was more out there to learn and to do.

God knows that's how I did it. Its nice that there are options for those of us "diving lite" divers to become DIO (Do It Over) divers.

But the real shame is all the divers who will never have the opportunity to know what they weren't taught. How do you know what you don't know?

 

[TSandM]

How do you know what you don't know?

Well, that's what Scubaboard (and mentors) are for . . . !

(Not to mention a fair amount of silt-kicking and buoyancy issues . . . even my PADI AOW instructor chided me for torturing the anemones.)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well, it still boils down to "It's the instructor, stupid". If YOUR instructor didn't teach you trim, buoyancy, and non-silting kicks, then that's his/your fault. My PADI instructor taught me the frog kick first, and then the modified flutter kick. He also worked with me on my trim and buoyancy control.

I personally have witnessed several instructors from other agencies that teach the confined water portion of the training by having students kneel in the pool.

No, it's not the instructors fault if they don't teach those skills. The reason is that those skills are not required by the training standards and there is a VERY GOOD chance that the instructor has never even had to learn them himself unless he happens to be a cave diver or some one who has persued GUE training. The instructor is only responsible for teaching what the standards require. You certainly never have to demonstrate that you have mastered those skills in order to become an instructor and you absolutely never have to demonstrate that you can teach them.

Besides that it's a business. Not only are there instructors who will never teach beyond the minimum requirements, the shops that put out the most students and are financially the most successful have instructors who are masters at presenting the minimum requirements in an absolute minimum amount of time. In fact, in my own Istructor development course, I had a course director who did a great job of coaching his instructor candidates on how to teach exactly this way.

As an example, I know of a shop who's OW sessions go this way. The instructor waits on the training platform. An assistant brings a group of students to him. Skills are quickly condicted on knees and the assistant leads the students back to the exit point underwater and that's the tour. Standards require a 20 minute dive and these students aren't going to spend one second over 20 minutes under water. With a couple of instructors and a couple of assistants you can crank through 50 students in a weekend. I talked to one of their instructors who claimed to have certified over 400 divers that year. Keep in mind that this is the midwest and there isn't any entry level training going on in the winter so he is crankin. Being able and willing to teach this way makes you one thing...employable.


Now some of those students who get cranked through will get cranked through a bunch more classes (one after the other) the same way and will be instructors in a year. They won't teach beyond the standards because they won't know anything beyond the standards and what they've seen.

I didn't read this whole thread but while GUE is a non-profit organization, the shops owned by it's members or former members are not. They need to sell classes and equipment so I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see GUE members or former members try to tailor their products to appeal to a larger market. I was surprised to hear about a GUE instructor who uses an air2 when he's doing non-teaching rec dives because he's a scubapro employee though.

 

[Diver0001]

Well GUE has done it again. For those of you who have looked into taking DIR-f and have decided that it would cost way too much to replace your BCD with a BPW or dress all in black... There is a new workshop that is a simplified version of fundies. The only gear requirement is to use a long hose (about $40.00) and non split fins.

Here is more info:....snip....

Anyway you look at it, it's not DIR. Throwing the gear requirements overboard undermines too many of the basic principles of DIR for it to still be called DIR.

That's not to say it isn't valuable but whatever it is, it's entirely new. Maybe it should be called DIR-Fake.

I foresee a new schism. "Real" DIR divers will view these 1/2 trained newlings as "only one step better than PADI". The newlings will have their instant gratification by "passing" something that someone labeled DIR but they'll miss an important part of the point and the instructors will get the last laugh because they'll be raking in the profits riding on GUE's coat tails with a 1/2 baked copy. Maybe they should print the books on plain yellow paper while they're at it.

Interestingly, this kind of "dumbing down" is met with universal disdain when done by some of the other agencies, even when done for the very same reason, namely accessibility.

hmmmm.

R..

 

[tedtim]

The term fail is unfortunate.

Just like the term "Advanced" is unfortunate. If this course is indeed aimed at improving skills rather than filtering out people for the next level of training, then sign me up.

What a great idea. Now that I have my c-card, I can now learn how to dive. Sounds like a great course. Starting out at 48 I am not looking to get too technical but good diving skills would be a great asset here in the north atlantic. Only problem is, Where do you take it? (the course)

Good point! I am 47 and have no interest in getting into the technical world.

I have to agree with many others in that the cost of the gear is a significant barrier to entry.

 

[jonnythan]

The reason why Partridge is defensive is because the PADI bashing is a direct assault on the agency that he instructs for. We would feel the same way if someone abused us.

While I agree with Jon and Stsomewhere's points (myself having gone through PADI OW and AOW). I think perhaps we can understand the defensive posture when someone refers to DIR advocates, as mindless koolaide drinking lemmings - right CIB?

Calling me a lemming is an insult.

I simply stated that partridge's agency doesn't teach the same level or type of skill as a DIRF.

That's not an insult, that's simple reality.

 

[Kim]

Calling me a lemming is an insult.

Yes it is...and I really don't agree with it. Calling people strokes is also not polite. There's just too much name calling all round.

 

[Diver0001]

==this isn't directed only at you, Mike, but your post gives me a nice little soap box to start with==

Now some of those students who get cranked through will get cranked through a bunch more classes (one after the other) the same way and will be instructors in a year. They won't teach beyond the standards because they won't know anything beyond the standards and what they've seen.

And some won't. This kind of talk is like pointing at the worst drivers on the road and drawing all kinds of conclusions about the rest .....

Some people are just heads-drilled-full-of-holes idiots and unfortunately some of them become scuba instructors. Most are not like that and to conclude that they are because the system doesn't do a good enough job of screening the losers is drawing bigger conclusions than I believe can be supported by the big picture.

In other words, while I will agree that the system doesn't do a good enough job of screening the losers but that doesn't make the losers the norm.

There is also another aspect to this that I believe is often forgotten, which is personal responsibility. If someone is taught badly then they should be able to recognise that (at some point) and should take responsibility (regardless of what happened to get them in that situation) for doing something about it.

And finally, where you set the bar is important. It's literally impossible to teach flawless buoyancy control to everyone. At some level, personal aptitude plays a roll. Some people can learn it with a few hours of instruction, some will still be struggling with it after 50. Just to give you an example, I once had two people in the pool for a scuba review. They had done all of their training together and all of their dives together to date. One of them was totally sorted out. Alert, accurate, skills nailed, buoyancy good, finning good...etc and the other one could do *nothing* but look at me like a stunned cow the whole time. This case was extreme becuase I don't believe the diver in question should have been certified but such variations, even in a single group of people taking OW are the norm. At some point you need to set a limit on the effort you're willing to put into to and let people just go dive (assuming, of course, that they've learned the required skills).

{edit- added} BTW, this is both a fundamental difference and a fundamental similarity with DIR-F. DIR-F doesn't attract as many "stunned cows" as PADI OW does (that's the difference) and they also limit their effort and let people just go dive (the similarity).

I just think that expecting OW students to be able to roll straight on through to DIR-F or Tech-1 is absurd and bashing PADI and others for not making that their priority is also absurd.

R..

 

[jonnythan]

Yes it is...and I really don't agree with it. Calling people strokes is also not polite. There's just too much name calling all round.

Are you implying I ever called anyone that?

I never have, and would enact disciplinary action on any user who directly insults another user.