Discover Scuba Diving aka DSD aka "Resort Course" question?

[paowdan]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here to this forum but have been an active diver for the past year having logged over 2,000 minutes of bottom time and have been trying to get as many of my non-diver friends involved!

So I stumbled upon this vast online community while trying to find some information and am hoping to tap your collective wealth of knowledge as I try to better understand what a Discover Scuba Dive / DSD / "Resort Course" is supposed to consist of. (In order to make sure my friends get the best possible experiences!)

The PADI DSD page does not provide much detail as to what to expect but some other references I've found online about DSDs (which may offer one or two open water dives) mention the following:

• "includes a pool session and 2 full length dives on the ocean at two different dive sites"
• "Includes basic knowledge, pool session with gear and (1) open water water dive."
• "participants get brief instruction then on to an actual Open Water dive"
• "You will spend around 30 minutes learning the basics of how to dive and how dive equipment works, then up to 60 minutes in-water experiencing your new adventure in safety."
• "After a short session covering the basic theory of scuba, you get the opportunity to try out the equipment in shallow water whilst learning some basic scuba skills. The course concludes with a shallow dive on one of our beautiful reefs guided by one of our instructors."
• "you will be taken on our custom made platform that recreate shallow pool like conditions for your first taste of this wonderful sport... but this is just the beginning! Following this brief skills learning session, you will be taken on your first real dive at our training dive site."

My understanding (from previous experiences) is that a DSD includes:
(a) Basic theoretical skills/training
(b) Safety/basic skills/training in a shallow confined water environment
(c) 1 or more open water dive(s)

My confusion arises from an experience during which my friends signed up for a "two-tank DSD" expecting to do two full open water dives after the confined water skills training (as in the description noted on the other website quoted above) but ended up doing two "dives" which consisted of (1) a combination of the basic skills exercises (approx. 10 minutes) in a confined harbor environment and the "first" open water dive in the same vicinity (approx. 18 minutes) and (2) a full length open water dive.

After surfacing from the first "dive" and realizing that it was NOT just the skills training but actually the "first" dive, everyone was confused as to why the dive had been cut off short (everyone still had between 1700-2000 PSI remaining). The explanation given was that "After the skills portion they did a tour for pleasure, and that constitutes a dive for the Discover Scuba Diving Experience, you can again check with other dive operations."

My question is basically, was my friends' experience something that is considered standard practice for a DSD? I am hoping that those with more experience can chime in and help me understand whether our expectations were incorrect or whether we were shortchanged.

Many thanks in advance for any clarification that anyone can contribute!

Dan

 

[BlueC5Kitten]

It almost sounds like they were short-changed (two tanks is two tanks)...but I can only speak from my personal experience. I took a DSD course in Grand Cayman as part of a cruise to find out if it was something I could become passionate about...it did indeed...

Anyway, we had about 15-20 minutes of land based discussion regarding some of the physics basics of diving, and how the gases behave under pressure. We then moved to the pool, where we were fitted and were provided again, with good basic instruction. Specifically, how to breathe underwater (like you do above water), how to clear a mask, purging the reg, how to maintain bouyancy without the use of the inflator/deflator on the BC, etc. Once we were okay'd by the instructor, then we completed a dive, using the same gear we were fitted with for the training portion. Our only open water dive lasted approximately 45 minutes, and went to a depth of 38 feet. I wasn't fully aware of what the SPG and other gauges were at the dive's inception; however, I managed to figure out the purpose of the SPG and depth guage and had used less than 1800psi (pretty good for a beginner who had no formal instruction prior to that day).

I have heard horror stories at my LDS...and they are always hesitant to take students who have completed a DSD course because of the positive or negative impacts (and training) the student may have had.

 

[AzAtty]

Under PADI standards for the Discover Scuba Diving program, the two open water dives are an optional feature that may be included at the instructor's discretion. Standards say nothing about the length of the dive. The PADI Instructor Manual stresses that the instructor should use his/her best judgment when conducting any training dives, so the fact that one dive got cut short could simply be an application of instructor judgment to a particular situation.

Understand that the program guide for the DSD program is pretty thin--like a few pages. It sets out maximum student to instructor ratios, age limits, depth limits, skills and topics to discuss, standards for the optional open water dives, availability of "transfer credit" to the Open Water class, and paperwork requirements. It's supposed to be a relatively flexible course that can be adapted to varying situations.

That said, I think that if the course is advertised as including two dives, it should include the two dives. The program guide certainly contemplates the completion of confined water (or "confined open water") training and then two ADDITIONAL dives.

 

[Jim Kerr]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here to this forum but have been an active diver for the past year having logged over 2,000 minutes of bottom time and have been trying to get as many of my non-diver friends involved!

So I stumbled upon this vast online community while trying to find some information and am hoping to tap your collective wealth of knowledge as I try to better understand what a Discover Scuba Dive / DSD / "Resort Course" is supposed to consist of. (In order to make sure my friends get the best possible experiences!)

The PADI DSD page does not provide much detail as to what to expect but some other references I've found online about DSDs (which may offer one or two open water dives) mention the following:

• "includes a pool session and 2 full length dives on the ocean at two different dive sites"
• "Includes basic knowledge, pool session with gear and (1) open water water dive."
• "participants get brief instruction then on to an actual Open Water dive"
• "You will spend around 30 minutes learning the basics of how to dive and how dive equipment works, then up to 60 minutes in-water experiencing your new adventure in safety."
• "After a short session covering the basic theory of scuba, you get the opportunity to try out the equipment in shallow water whilst learning some basic scuba skills. The course concludes with a shallow dive on one of our beautiful reefs guided by one of our instructors."
• "you will be taken on our custom made platform that recreate shallow pool like conditions for your first taste of this wonderful sport... but this is just the beginning! Following this brief skills learning session, you will be taken on your first real dive at our training dive site."

My understanding (from previous experiences) is that a DSD includes:
(a) Basic theoretical skills/training
(b) Safety/basic skills/training in a shallow confined water environment
(c) 1 or more open water dive(s)

My confusion arises from an experience during which my friends signed up for a "two-tank DSD" expecting to do two full open water dives after the confined water skills training (as in the description noted on the other website quoted above) but ended up doing two "dives" which consisted of (1) a combination of the basic skills exercises (approx. 10 minutes) in a confined harbor environment and the "first" open water dive in the same vicinity (approx. 18 minutes) and (2) a full length open water dive.

After surfacing from the first "dive" and realizing that it was NOT just the skills training but actually the "first" dive, everyone was confused as to why the dive had been cut off short (everyone still had between 1700-2000 PSI remaining). The explanation given was that "After the skills portion they did a tour for pleasure, and that constitutes a dive for the Discover Scuba Diving Experience, you can again check with other dive operations."

My question is basically, was my friends' experience something that is considered standard practice for a DSD? I am hoping that those with more experience can chime in and help me understand whether our expectations were incorrect or whether we were shortchanged.

Many thanks in advance for any clarification that anyone can contribute!

Dan

Hi Dan and welcome to the board. If you fill out your profile you can list your experience and number of dives. Have never seen experience listed in minutes before.

As for your question I think it was reasonable for them to cut the first dive short as it was probably in "very" shallow water and would take forever to drain those tanks down to 500psi. Plus it would probably get a little boring after awhile. Also the first dive is to evaluate if it is safe to bring the student in open water where all the good stuff is. Some DSD's are only given in a pool, it just depends where you take it. Those courses aren't that expensive and do include the instruction in the price so it sounds to me like it was a very thorough resort course so they were not cheated. Where was it taken?

 

[BlueC5Kitten]

Those courses aren't that expensive and do include the instruction in the price so it sounds to me like it was a very thorough resort course so they were not cheated. Where was it taken?

It sounds like they received the instruction they paid for...but to call it a two-tank dive? I think that was stretching it a bit, as we had our instruction and dive on one tank...just my 2¢ though.

Cheers!

 

[paowdan]

Thanks for your responses so far!

BlueC5Kitten - Your experience is pretty much what I had expected (and experienced previously as well)! One tank to be used for exercises followed up by a separate open water dive (using the same equipment). Then, the second tank for the second open water dive.

AzAtty - Is this the PDF of the instructor guide?

Jim - I filled in some info for my profile but I personally just like to track my bottom time! =)


So I'll try to provide a little more background to hopefully clarify the picture but I'm not intending to point fingers and want to be sure that I'm not the one who's overreacting to the situation!

My understanding is that the first dive was not "cut off short" (perhaps wrong choice of words on my part) but rather, it is the dive operation's standard procedure to surface after the length of time we were in the water. I am confused because I didn't expect 10 minutes of skills + 18 minutes of "exploring" to be considered a 1-tank DSD! Additionally, my impression was that the timing was compressed because the dive operation schedules it that way (certified divers on the same boat are dropped off for their first dive; DSDs are taken to a shallow area for the exercises/first dive; boat picks up certified divers after their first dive and then picks up DSDs after which everyone does a second dive).

If it had been a 1-tank DSD (for which a price was also quoted but my friends opted to pay for the obviously more expensive 2-tank option to get a fuller experience), my friends would have basically been DONE after 28 minutes. That compares to BlueC5Kitten's total pool training + 45 minutes of open water!

Additionally, I also "tagged along" with the group paying for my own "certified two-tank dives" in which I basically observed the 10-minutes of exercises in about 7 feet of water and then logged an 18 minute dive for myself once the "first dive" began... (I could almost hold my breathe that long... maybe not.) =)


At the end of the day, I don't think it's an issue of whether we actually used 1 or 2 tanks (I could've used the same tank for both dives based on my total air consumption!), but whether it is "standard practice" across the industry to consider 28 minutes in the water a full 1-tank DSD program?

Thanks again for your responses! Please feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding something or confirm my beliefs! =)

 

[scubapatton]

Wow, so the boat left the divers in water to go drop off DSD students, THEN left the DSD students to go get the divers, THEN returned for the DSD students..! OUCH. I have never been on a boat that left divers in the water and would never dive with a boat that did. Eventually the law of averages will catch up to them.

As for the DSD, it is only one open water dive that can be done, and applied to OW, if the instructor so chooses. An open water dive is optional as part of the DSD, although often done in resort areas.

An open water dive "counts" if the diver uses 500 psi, or is under 15' for at least 5 minutes I think... Hence the "ability" to do multiple dives off one tank if you so choose... Kind of defeats the purpose, but some people do this....

 

[Jim Kerr]

Thanks for your responses so far!

BlueC5Kitten - Your experience is pretty much what I had expected (and experienced previously as well)! One tank to be used for exercises followed up by a separate open water dive (using the same equipment). Then, the second tank for the second open water dive.

AzAtty - Is this the PDF of the instructor guide?

Jim - I filled in some info for my profile but I personally just like to track my bottom time! =)


So I'll try to provide a little more background to hopefully clarify the picture but I'm not intending to point fingers and want to be sure that I'm not the one who's overreacting to the situation!

My understanding is that the first dive was not "cut off short" (perhaps wrong choice of words on my part) but rather, it is the dive operation's standard procedure to surface after the length of time we were in the water. I am confused because I didn't expect 10 minutes of skills + 18 minutes of "exploring" to be considered a 1-tank DSD! Additionally, my impression was that the timing was compressed because the dive operation schedules it that way (certified divers on the same boat are dropped off for their first dive; DSDs are taken to a shallow area for the exercises/first dive; boat picks up certified divers after their first dive and then picks up DSDs after which everyone does a second dive).

If it had been a 1-tank DSD (for which a price was also quoted but my friends opted to pay for the obviously more expensive 2-tank option to get a fuller experience), my friends would have basically been DONE after 28 minutes. That compares to BlueC5Kitten's total pool training + 45 minutes of open water!

Additionally, I also "tagged along" with the group paying for my own "certified two-tank dives" in which I basically observed the 10-minutes of exercises in about 7 feet of water and then logged an 18 minute dive for myself once the "first dive" began... (I could almost hold my breathe that long... maybe not.) =)


At the end of the day, I don't think it's an issue of whether we actually used 1 or 2 tanks (I could've used the same tank for both dives based on my total air consumption!), but whether it is "standard practice" across the industry to consider 28 minutes in the water a full 1-tank DSD program?

Thanks again for your responses! Please feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding something or confirm my beliefs! =)

My question is basically, was my friends' experience something that is considered standard practice for a DSD? I am hoping that those with more experience can chime in and help me understand whether our expectations were incorrect or whether we were shortchanged.

Dan, are you really an AOW certified diver? Some of your comments lead me to believe you are being less than truthful with us. You wrote this as if you were inquiring on behalf of your "friends" but you clearly involve "yourself" as part of the DSD resort course. Why would an AOW certified diver take a resort course? You listed your experience in minutes rather than in number of dives which is not the norm. I thought maybe you liked the sound of that better than the number of dives you have but now I actually believe that you are not a diver at all and were actually listing your own experience and not your "friends" resort dive.. You keep saying "we" instead of "they". You also seem to know an awful lot about something you supposedly were not a part of. Come clean Dan.

 

[nolatom]

DSD was my first intro to scuba. I did an hour at a pool, with the topside instruction consisting mostly of, "always keep breathing--never hold your breath"). So I remembered that, and enjoyed tooling around the pool in 10 feet of water.

Then I was asked if I wanted to go with the instructors that weekend, a 2-tank dive with an instructor at my elbow, and the price of the pool dive would be knocked off the boat dive. Sure thing! says I.

So I got two enjoyable 25-foot dives off the outside of a Florida breakwater with an instructor to myself (and which ended when I signalled 1000 pounds of air), and was very interested in doing more, because it was really fun.

And when I got back home, that's what I did, signed up for classes and felt like a "veteran" (relatively speaking) since I'd dived before.

So I'd recommend it, at least based on personal experience..

For me, it was perfect

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As for the DSD, it is only one open water dive that can be done, and applied to OW, if the instructor so chooses. An open water dive is optional as part of the DSD, although often done in resort areas.

Subsequent Open Water Dives
After new divers complete a PADI Discover Scuba Diving open water dive with a
PADI Instructor, they may participate in additional dives.

Note: Use your judgment to determine if a participant needs a skill review before participating in
subsequent dives. For example, a participant diving with you on a single holiday need not redo
the program or the releases. A participant who returns after several months should repeat the
entire program including new releases.

An open water dive "counts" if the diver uses 500 psi, or is under 15' for at least 5 minutes I think... Hence the "ability" to do multiple dives off one tank if you so choose... Kind of defeats the purpose, but some people do this....

4. For training purposes, an open water dive is a dive during which a student
diver spends the majority of time at a depth of at least 5 metres/15 feet
and:
a. breathes at least 1400 litres or 50 cubic feet of compressed gas.
OR
b. remains submerged for at least 20 minutes.

As for your question I think it was reasonable for them to cut the first dive short as it was probably in "very" shallow water and would take forever to drain those tanks down to 500psi. Plus it would probably get a little boring after awhile. Also the first dive is to evaluate if it is safe to bring the student in open water where all the good stuff is.

As I understand it, the pool/confined water training is the evaluation period for the instructor. If the participant is sketchy, don't take them into open water. From the sound of it I think the first dive, on the same tank as the confined skills, was conducted to the minimum open water training dive requirement in order to qualify as the first dive of the OW course. That way if the participant declined to do the second dive, they could still be sold on only needing 3 more training dives to be certified.

Here in Hawaii, the "Revealed" guide book series (Maui Revealed, Kauai Revealed, etc.) contains a DSD warning in the diving section. Something on the order of - Ask in advance; what size tanks are used, is the confined training in a pool or just off the beach, is the tour portion with a fresh tank, is the second dive a different site?