Dive operator: "We won't let you ..."

[supergaijin]

Even an air share can be practiced easily during a normal dive -- either as just a drill while on a safety stop or as the (often criticized) practice of "borrowing a cup of air" just for kicks. But if a "skill" isn't practiced it quickly isn't a useful tool.

Sorry I have to bite!

Sharing air as a skill, sharing air just for kicks, and sharing air to extend bottom times for heavy breathers are all different things

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sorry I have to bite!

Sharing air as a skill, sharing air just for kicks, and sharing air to extend bottom times for heavy breathers are all different things

True ... mostly in terms of choosing your moment, and the mindset that goes with the action ... but muscle memory is a wonderful thing to have in a time of crisis ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[xyrandomyx]

Unfortunately this happens more often than you'd like to think ... and all too often people are thinking of their limits in terms of what they paid to get there, not whether their skill level is up to the task of doing the dive with reasonable safety and comfort. When the captain or crew assures them they'll be fine, they're all too willing to accept it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm with billt4sf on this one -- there are plenty of dives that I know I don't have the training or experience to do. And no matter how much money I've spent or how much anyone tries to twist my arm, I'm not going to do them. I'm more worried about the dives which seem only seem straight-forward enough for me because my lack of experience has led me to miss something (or the implications of something).

An example that comes to mind: I did a drift dive a little while ago. I don't recall the DM explicitly mentioning once in the briefing that it'd be a drift dive, or that the current was really fairly strong. I already knew that it was going to be a drift dive (dived there the day before, researched before my trip), so I didn't ask -- but, right after my OW course, I might've been in for a nasty surprise, and probably wouldn't have thought to ask.

To avoid this, I've been trying to build a kind of checklist of questions to ask or make sure are answered in briefings before diving a new site (or a familiar site in different conditions) -- a sort of list of 'complicating factors'. I put some 'complicating factors' on my 'hell, no' list, others I'd just like to know in advance so I'm prepared, others I'm comfortable handling as long as there's only one or two of them present (not a whole list of compounded complications).

 

[Tigerman]

It should have been mentioned in the brief that it was a drift dive, HOWEVER..
When it comes to drift dives and currents you really have to get there and have a look at what its doing to know for sure.
Even with current charts/tidal charts and knowing the dive site normaly does one thing, theres no guarantee its not doing something else.
Some places is of course more predictable than others in this regard, but you never know.

 

[xyrandomyx]

It should have been mentioned in the brief that it was a drift dive, HOWEVER..
When it comes to drift dives and currents you really have to get there and have a look at what its doing to know for sure.
Even with current charts/tidal charts and knowing the dive site normaly does one thing, theres no guarantee its not doing something else.
Some places is of course more predictable than others in this regard, but you never know.

Well, in that particular location, pretty much every dive is a drift dive. There's almost always a current running, it switches from north-south to south-north and it's sometimes stronger than other times, but it's basically always there. Which might well be why the DM didn't think to mention it explicitly -- diving there every day, I think 'dive' and 'drift dive' may be virtually synonymous in his mind.

Anyway, it wasn't a problem, everyone in the group knew what to expect anyway. And he may well have spelt things out a bit more clearly if someone had said they'd just been certified or something similar. I was just hoping to illustrate that just because the water looks pretty unthreatening and the dive briefing makes things sound uncomplicated, that doesn't actually mean you're prepared for the dive.

 

[Quero]

I'm with billt4sf on this one -- there are plenty of dives that I know I don't have the training or experience to do. And no matter how much money I've spent or how much anyone tries to twist my arm, I'm not going to do them. I'm more worried about the dives which seem only seem straight-forward enough for me because my lack of experience has led me to miss something (or the implications of something).

An example that comes to mind: I did a drift dive a little while ago. I don't recall the DM explicitly mentioning once in the briefing that it'd be a drift dive, or that the current was really fairly strong. I already knew that it was going to be a drift dive (dived there the day before, researched before my trip), so I didn't ask -- but, right after my OW course, I might've been in for a nasty surprise, and probably wouldn't have thought to ask.

To avoid this, I've been trying to build a kind of checklist of questions to ask or make sure are answered in briefings before diving a new site (or a familiar site in different conditions) -- a sort of list of 'complicating factors'. I put some 'complicating factors' on my 'hell, no' list, others I'd just like to know in advance so I'm prepared, others I'm comfortable handling as long as there's only one or two of them present (not a whole list of compounded complications).

It's a good idea to be prepared to ask questions during the briefing--in fact, the briefing itself can give you clues as to what to ask about. Using your example, if the DM explains that you'll drop in at one location and have a live pickup at a different location rather than navigating out and back (or in a circle) from an anchored boat, you should be prompted to ask whether it's a drift dive. When the briefing stipulates a round-trip dive, you will want to ask about suggested turn pressures or time. When the DM shows or draws a map, make sure you are clear on the depth contour (so you can do your own gas planning), which way is north (so you can situate yourself with your compass), and so on. In other words, view the briefing as a dialogue in which you participate rather than a monologue by the DM.

 

[Robert Gillcash]

I'm not sure of this is the right forum for this but I have learned alot from the forum here so I'll post.

What do people think of the exchange between me and a certain dive operator? We are thinking of going there but we want to make sure the dives are appropriate for us. My query first, followed by their response:



My query: We are novice divers, about 50 dives each. We did the AOW class but not the "Deep Diving" portion. It seems to me from reading your website that several dive sites would be better done if we did get that deeper experience before coming. We would really like to see some sharks and other larger creatures so I guess that deep diving cert is important - ?


Their response: Wedo not require an AOW certification incl. the deep adventure dive to let you do Deep Dives. Once the dive crew has seen you in the water diving and feels comfortable with your diving skills, you will certainly be able to do the deeper dives as well.
We will never put you in a situation you are not comfortable with and would work with you before you go on a deep dive.



Thanks in advance for your comments.

- Bill

wow, 12 pages, 116 posts, but no answer to the question, which agency did you do the AOW class thru?

 

[djensen]

I agree with Robert Gillcash. I'm still confused as to how you got your AOW without doing a single deep dive. That sounds odd to me.

I see nothing suspicious or untoward about the dive operator's original response. Ultimately, dive safety is up to you whether you have a guide or not. Deep isn't dangerous. Diving beyond your abilities is dangerous, regardless the depth. Sounds like they were willing to assess and see how you did and how you felt about it. And if all was good, they were willing to take you deep. Seems completely fair to me.

 

[Fl_Key_Guy]

Deeper dives? As one of my buddies always says, "There is no difference in a deeper dive except that your margin for error is less."
That is a little simplified, but basically,in a deep dive there is less chance of being in a panic and coming out unscathed. So cut your chances of freaking out, and all should be well. That means watching the bottom time and air supply, remembering to think before acting rashly, and either keeping your buddy very quickly accessible or carry a pony bottle. I have found too many buddies over the years that were not immediately accessible when a problem came up, so anything over 45', I carry a pony bottle to allow a safe slow ascent in case of equipment or other air supply problem. That might have saved my hide in an entanglement I had at 110' and my buddy had taken off after a speared fish, and then ascended alone. I ran out of air on the main tank before I cut myself loose. (My air had gotten low anyway from trying to get a fish under control and on the safety pin while a big 'cuda competed) I don't count on buddies any more. A pair of novice divers without ponies might take a leash along so attention can be gotten with a jerk on the line. Most of my buddies carry underwater honkers as a buddy alert. Anything to bolster confidence and avoid a panic dash to the surface will help make a dive safe. It's a loooong way up from depth at a safe rate, and seems even longer when you are at all freaked out- like when sharks are circling you for instance. They can hear your heart beat and fear turns 'em on- even if they are just making sport of you...."Let's have some fun and give him a dive to remember! Hahahahaaaa!"

 

[Hawkwood]

Deeper dives? As one of my buddies always says, "There is no difference in a deeper dive except that your margin for error is less."...

Someone much wiser than me posted on SB regarding going deep - something along the lines of not focusing on the depth, but rather thinking about how much time it takes to get to the surface from your planned depth. It really puts a different perspective on it when you think in those terms.