Diving incident at Eagles Nest Sink

[Capt Tom McCarthy]

Ok, I guess I may as well post my guess of what happened in view of my previous experiences there.

The dive was planned well with plenty of BO gas. The divers had the certs to do the dive and had been in Eagles Nest before. This leads me to believe that nobody took of a rebreather to get through the restriction.

MY OPINION:

They went through the restriction and did their dive into Revelation Space. Upon their return to the restriction the vis was either not very good or the first diver out mucked it up for the second diver. The second diver had difficulty getting out the restriction either by going on the wrong side of the line or being in too much of a heads up position and his rebreather not clearing the ceiling. After several minutes of trying to get out the diver decided that he must remove his rebreather to get out. Since his Bo is also clipped to the same harness then he effectively becomes no mount at this point. He is buoyant as hell but the ceiling works in his favor. He pushes the rebreather and tank through the restriction and his buddy helps pull them out. by the time the diver is out of the restriction he has probably pretty much used up that entire tank and the visibilty is completely gone in that area and the silt cloud is bellowing into the room of dreams. As the diver trys to locate and get his RB back on his buoyancy takes him on a hell ride to the ceiling with his BO tank and his buddy goes to the rescue with his own BO. As they float at the ceiling they see nothing through the silt below them and decide to exit relying on their BO and staged tanks. I highly doubt that either of them even looked at their deco obligation until this time.

Pick it apart all you want, I have not interest in trying to justify my thoughts. The fact that they were still together until the end tells me that regardless of how things went, they worked together and did everything to the best of their ability, knowledge, and experience to stay alive.

I believe, as others have already said, that the fatal mistake was in not taking the time needed to locate and get back into the rebreather. It is entirely possible that due to the circumstances that this was either not a possibility or was perceived as such in one or both of their minds.

I wrote out my own timeline theory but i'm hesitant to post it. It starts off like that as well. Thank's for sharing a rational opinion. You see this kind of analysis and theorizing openly take place with plane crashes, however, I think it can be quite different in diving because we are such a small family and it hurts to think of the mistakes our loved ones may have made. I think as long as we are respectful of the deceased, as the imperfect human beings that every single one of us is, we can maybe gleam some small measure of knowledge from them which might help one of us in the future.

 

[kensuf]

Ken, are you contending that this was a planned 6-7 hour dive? The jj has a rated 180 mins at 100m on the canister. I can't imagine the deco gas they placed was for planned use but bail out.

Edit- looks like there is a extended run script Ber for the JJ that will go to 6 hours, however based on the other diver that was there that day with them but doing a solo dive not as extreme who said that they entered the water at 2pm with a plan to check in at a predetermined place in the water at 3pm. Doesn't sound like a 6-7 hour run time was planned.

No. I'm contending you have no idea what is involved and what it takes to do a 7-10 hour dive because you don't have the experience.

And I know several people that regularly do 6+ hour dives on JJ's.

 

[The Chairman]

Gentle people. I'm seeing a few flashes of emotion in here and hope it does not escalate. It's OK to disagree, but do it gently. None of us were down there. Don and Tom, both of your expertise are really welcome in this discussion. That you both agree to a point on the time line says a lot to me about the probability that this is what happened.

@Dsix36, what is your take away at this point? What lesson can we take away from this?

@Tmccar1, how about you? Do either of you believe that a side mount rebreather could have been a better choice here?

 

[kensuf]

Pete, I'm not getting testy or emotional. I'm just stating a fact, there is a world of difference between 4 and 6 hour dives. I described some of the differences in the post that Chris replied to and took out of context.

When a person's pinnacle dive is only a little over four hours, talking about suit flooding on a 6 hour dive and comparing to the Plura tragedy in Norway is talking out their butt. It's not emotional, it's factual. It's not harsh, he just doesn't have those experiences to draw on when he makes conjecture.

Don't get me wrong, I've never done more than 430 minutes on a dive and I have no idea what goes into a 10 hour dive. But I know AJ has, and I know that I don't know it all.

 

[cerich]

No. I'm contending you have no idea what is involved and what it takes to do a 7-10 hour dive because you don't have the experience.

And I know several people that regularly do 6+ hour dives on JJ's.

How about you explain where I am wrong instead of ranting.

nope, I don't do 6-7 hr cave dives. I have done them in ow however and more than a handful.

Anyway, there is zero evidence that I have seen that the dive in question was a planned 6-7 hour dive.

And if you read my post you would see that I did edit it tosay that there was a extended scrubber for the JJ that I was not aware of when I first posted...

 

[catone]

More info from farmerted on cdf, ccr not clipped on the line, now Dsix36's theory seems very plausible (diver 1 goes thru restriction with unit on, viz messed up, diver 2 stuck, removes gear, pushes it in front, all the way out but off the line, zero viz and very buoyant, finds buddy but not the gear, both decide to get out asap instead of looking for ditched unit).
Still curious how they navigated after the light head was disconnected, and why wasn't the scooter clipped to any of the divers when they were found.
Can a rebreather diver speculate why the loop was crushed?

 

[cerich]

Pete, I'm not getting testy or emotional. I'm just stating a fact, there is a world of difference between 4 and 6 hour dives. I described some of the differences in the post that Chris replied to and took out of context.

When a person's pinnacle dive is only a little over four hours, talking about suit flooding on a 6 hour dive and comparing to the Plura tragedy in Norway is talking out their butt. It's not emotional, it's factual. It's not harsh, he just doesn't have those experiences to draw on when he makes conjecture.

Don't get me wrong, I've never done more than 430 minutes on a dive and I have no idea what goes into a 10 hour dive. But I know AJ has, and I know that I don't know it all.

You really think that the survivor of the Plural incident was not more thermally challenged than a Florida cave diver with a flooded suit would be on even the 6-7 hr dive you are claiming this was?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

We all read this discussion, but are limited by our own inexperience. So when I asked for confirmation that the CCR was dropped outside of a restriction and both divers penetrated further inward, this is not what seems to have happened? It would be hard for me to envision someone doing that, but again, this is orders of magnitude outside of my experience.

Also, is it common for people to place all their ballast on a rebreather, making themselves so vulnerable to being excessively buoyant if removed (when wearing a dry suit)? That seems like such an obvious weakness or limitation - not something they would realize when doing it.

Would people do that because they feel it is more comfortable than a weightbelt or weight harness for such long dives? I would think that if divers know they might have to remove gear to pass a tight area, this would be a huge consideration?

 

[cerich]

They were diving with 2 xLP 95 and the ccr, extra weight was the last thing needed.

 

[cerich]

And I think it is a safe bet that gear removal was not a planned event on that dive