Kristi@CCDS
Contributor
Families deserve an ACCURATE interpretation to the scenario BEFORE anyone on a stupid internet thread deserves a response. I can tell you a few people have definately fallen into the "your money ain't no good here boy" category for our facility as a result of this and other threads. Quit being cowards and put your actual names in your responses so I know who to ban from my shop. The number one cause of fatalities is still medical so instead of worrying about what happened here, if you don't want to be the next guy my friends and I drag out, hit effing gym. Here is something from a fellow diver.
Accident analysis and social media: a recovery divers perspective
Good morning all. Normally I don't post surrounding an incident,but I have had enough and something needs to be said. To the moderators, please feel free to relocate this. To anyone else, please repost in as many forums and groups as you want.
I have been diving for 32 years of which 22 has been cave diving. in that time, I have participated in 6 body recoveries. after this past weekend, that number has, unfortunately gone up to 8.
The primary purpose of the IUCRR is to aid law enforcement in the collection of evidence and the extraction of victims from the overhead environment. In a nutshell, once a victim or victims is located, the job of the recovery diver is to first document EVERYTHING and then do the extraction. Sometimes, if not most, this takes multiple teams. With the technology of today, most scenes are captured on camera as part of the evidence collection process. upon completion of operations, everything is handed over to the sheriffs. From there it can go many ways and usually the IUCRR is done. We all go home, hug our loved ones and get some needed rest.
Accident analysis is a cornerstone of our sport. Without it, I feel our sport would not be as safe as it is today. After a fatality, the only people who know all the facts are the deceased. The next in line are the recovery divers. Many times they have a very good idea what transpired during the fateful dive and there are usually many conversations amongst the team in the days following discussing just such. When there is a fatality in a car accident, one does not see a State trooper posting on social media discussing evidence or theorizing what possibly happened. So I ask, why should that be different here? Furthermore, social media is continually being browsed by others outside our community such as family members, lawyers and the news media. If a recovery diver divulges info, they are possibly setting themselves up to relentless phone calls from the news media or even worse, having to spend days in court during a lawsuit having to explain what they posted. Part of being in the IUCRR is that if there is a lawsuit, Ken will be the man in court stating facts, not the recovery diver. I don't know about you, but I do not want to miss days of work for that.
The following is my story from the events this past weekend. I will not divulge information about any evidence or any of my theories. please do not pm me as I don't check them. I anyone does have any questions, you may contact me in a respectful manner and I will answer if I can. My apologies up front for the morbidity.
Saturday was a normal day for me. I was returning home from teaching a class at Blue Grotto when I got the call that some divers were overdue at Eagles Nest. After arriving home, I told my wife what was going on, loaded up gear for diving deep and long, had a quick bite and gave all of my family extra long hugs. Even though she already knew, I told my wife that I probably would not be home until sometime on sunday. I spent the drive getting status updates and making calls to people I knew were capable of participating in what could possibly a massive extraction. Keep in mind, the dive plan of the divers is not known and their current location is not known. It is also a Saturday evening. Some people are out to dinner or at family functions. At this point it was agreed that we should get as many people on standby as possible, but for now we needed 2-3 teams for an initial search. upon arriving at the scene, the number of emergency vehicles was overwhelming. If one has ever been there, you know that the parking area is small. I parked my truck 4 cars back on the entry road and walked in. The first team had just started their dive and where going to search the basin followed by a dive upstream. During their absence, we spent our time going over gear, making plans and hoping the team returns early with good news. After nearly 4 hours the first team is now in the basin. another team went in to get some info. No sight of them. it has now been nearly 12 hrs since the missing have started their dive. We waited for the first team to surface to get any more info before my buddy and I gear up to search down stream.
at around 03:45 my buddy and I depart to search down stream. we are prepared to do a very long dive if needed. It was agreed that if we find them, I would document via camera and my buddy would take notes. A short time later, we located the divers in the downstream section at the drop to the pit. For the next 45 minutes we document the entire scene both on video and wetnotes. When finished, we went back through everything to make sure there was nothing missing. Some of the things that need to be checked are.
Position of body
status and contents of mask(yes, you are staring a dead person in the face)
eyes open or closed(yes again you are looking at a dead person)
condition of hands,especially fingernails
condition of equipment: this includes gas quantity, valve positions, tank labels. if a rebreather is involved, its status is recorded as well.
Sometimes a body needs to be moved in order to check things. So yes, not only do you have to look at a dead person, you have to touch them as well.
After documenting and securing all of the evidence, we decided it was time to head for the door. The only redeeming factor to this dive(aside from helping the family) was that we got to watch the sun rise while on deco.
Total dive time was near 4 hrs
Upon surfacing, we were notified that family members of the deceased were present. normally the recovery divers are isolated from this, but with the small area here it was not possible. it went much better than I feared and that's all I will say there. after loading my gear and giving a statement. I drove home. 33 hours after my last sleep, I set my head on a pillow and had a good nap.
Over the following 2 days, the recovery was wrapped up. it took several more dives and many more hours to complete. The family can now start the grieving process. I am proud of the job the team did. We helped bring closure to a tragedy. Everyone acted in a very professional and efficient manner. If someday I perish in a cave, I could only hope that my recovery go as well as this.
And now for my rant:
SOME OF YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!!
Many times, even before a recovery has been completed, people are out there demanding info. There are statements out there such as, "if no one releases info, then speculation is going to run rampant as this is all we have". WTF!!! Have a little (insert your religion here) damn respect for the recovery team. You are asking for details that only they know and then bad mouthing them for not releasing it. as recovery divers, we have all made great sacrifices. we have lost work, spent gobs of money, risk getting bent, leave worrying families at home, etc, etc. Some people have a lot of nerve feeling that they are entitled to know right now all the details pertaining to the accident. For the love of (Insert your religion here) give it a little time. For those of you that say the details never get released? ********!!! When I witnessed an accident and then did the recovery of a diver in devils last spring, there was a complete report posted less than a week later on various social media sites. Come on people, have a little compassion for your fellow divers. Yes we can all learn from others mistakes, but it can wait. I'm really pissed off about some peoples behavior and all of my colleages agree. This community is small and there is no room for this behavior. As a recovery diver, I don't owe anyone a (insert religion here) damn thing!! Especially some arm chair,,, monday morning quarterback!!! If anyone thinks they are entitled to info on accidents, then why the hell were you not around when:
I had to purchase gear
Lost work
Had a worrying family
was tired
was hungry
Dealing with dead people is no fun at all(no, I don't have nightmares and no I do not need counseling). I don't even need a thankyou. what I and most if not all recovery divers need is for some of you to get down off your soap boxes and shut your pie hole. The very people that are helping a bad event like this are the ones that you are pissing on. you know who you are and when I see some of you in person I will tell you right to your face.
Safe Diving
Ted McCoy
Good morning all. Normally I don't post surrounding an incident,but I have had enough and something needs to be said. To the moderators, please feel free to relocate this. To anyone else, please repost in as many forums and groups as you want.
I have been diving for 32 years of which 22 has been cave diving. in that time, I have participated in 6 body recoveries. after this past weekend, that number has, unfortunately gone up to 8.
The primary purpose of the IUCRR is to aid law enforcement in the collection of evidence and the extraction of victims from the overhead environment. In a nutshell, once a victim or victims is located, the job of the recovery diver is to first document EVERYTHING and then do the extraction. Sometimes, if not most, this takes multiple teams. With the technology of today, most scenes are captured on camera as part of the evidence collection process. upon completion of operations, everything is handed over to the sheriffs. From there it can go many ways and usually the IUCRR is done. We all go home, hug our loved ones and get some needed rest.
Accident analysis is a cornerstone of our sport. Without it, I feel our sport would not be as safe as it is today. After a fatality, the only people who know all the facts are the deceased. The next in line are the recovery divers. Many times they have a very good idea what transpired during the fateful dive and there are usually many conversations amongst the team in the days following discussing just such. When there is a fatality in a car accident, one does not see a State trooper posting on social media discussing evidence or theorizing what possibly happened. So I ask, why should that be different here? Furthermore, social media is continually being browsed by others outside our community such as family members, lawyers and the news media. If a recovery diver divulges info, they are possibly setting themselves up to relentless phone calls from the news media or even worse, having to spend days in court during a lawsuit having to explain what they posted. Part of being in the IUCRR is that if there is a lawsuit, Ken will be the man in court stating facts, not the recovery diver. I don't know about you, but I do not want to miss days of work for that.
The following is my story from the events this past weekend. I will not divulge information about any evidence or any of my theories. please do not pm me as I don't check them. I anyone does have any questions, you may contact me in a respectful manner and I will answer if I can. My apologies up front for the morbidity.
Saturday was a normal day for me. I was returning home from teaching a class at Blue Grotto when I got the call that some divers were overdue at Eagles Nest. After arriving home, I told my wife what was going on, loaded up gear for diving deep and long, had a quick bite and gave all of my family extra long hugs. Even though she already knew, I told my wife that I probably would not be home until sometime on sunday. I spent the drive getting status updates and making calls to people I knew were capable of participating in what could possibly a massive extraction. Keep in mind, the dive plan of the divers is not known and their current location is not known. It is also a Saturday evening. Some people are out to dinner or at family functions. At this point it was agreed that we should get as many people on standby as possible, but for now we needed 2-3 teams for an initial search. upon arriving at the scene, the number of emergency vehicles was overwhelming. If one has ever been there, you know that the parking area is small. I parked my truck 4 cars back on the entry road and walked in. The first team had just started their dive and where going to search the basin followed by a dive upstream. During their absence, we spent our time going over gear, making plans and hoping the team returns early with good news. After nearly 4 hours the first team is now in the basin. another team went in to get some info. No sight of them. it has now been nearly 12 hrs since the missing have started their dive. We waited for the first team to surface to get any more info before my buddy and I gear up to search down stream.
at around 03:45 my buddy and I depart to search down stream. we are prepared to do a very long dive if needed. It was agreed that if we find them, I would document via camera and my buddy would take notes. A short time later, we located the divers in the downstream section at the drop to the pit. For the next 45 minutes we document the entire scene both on video and wetnotes. When finished, we went back through everything to make sure there was nothing missing. Some of the things that need to be checked are.
Position of body
status and contents of mask(yes, you are staring a dead person in the face)
eyes open or closed(yes again you are looking at a dead person)
condition of hands,especially fingernails
condition of equipment: this includes gas quantity, valve positions, tank labels. if a rebreather is involved, its status is recorded as well.
Sometimes a body needs to be moved in order to check things. So yes, not only do you have to look at a dead person, you have to touch them as well.
After documenting and securing all of the evidence, we decided it was time to head for the door. The only redeeming factor to this dive(aside from helping the family) was that we got to watch the sun rise while on deco.
Total dive time was near 4 hrs
Upon surfacing, we were notified that family members of the deceased were present. normally the recovery divers are isolated from this, but with the small area here it was not possible. it went much better than I feared and that's all I will say there. after loading my gear and giving a statement. I drove home. 33 hours after my last sleep, I set my head on a pillow and had a good nap.
Over the following 2 days, the recovery was wrapped up. it took several more dives and many more hours to complete. The family can now start the grieving process. I am proud of the job the team did. We helped bring closure to a tragedy. Everyone acted in a very professional and efficient manner. If someday I perish in a cave, I could only hope that my recovery go as well as this.
And now for my rant:
SOME OF YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!!
Many times, even before a recovery has been completed, people are out there demanding info. There are statements out there such as, "if no one releases info, then speculation is going to run rampant as this is all we have". WTF!!! Have a little (insert your religion here) damn respect for the recovery team. You are asking for details that only they know and then bad mouthing them for not releasing it. as recovery divers, we have all made great sacrifices. we have lost work, spent gobs of money, risk getting bent, leave worrying families at home, etc, etc. Some people have a lot of nerve feeling that they are entitled to know right now all the details pertaining to the accident. For the love of (Insert your religion here) give it a little time. For those of you that say the details never get released? ********!!! When I witnessed an accident and then did the recovery of a diver in devils last spring, there was a complete report posted less than a week later on various social media sites. Come on people, have a little compassion for your fellow divers. Yes we can all learn from others mistakes, but it can wait. I'm really pissed off about some peoples behavior and all of my colleages agree. This community is small and there is no room for this behavior. As a recovery diver, I don't owe anyone a (insert religion here) damn thing!! Especially some arm chair,,, monday morning quarterback!!! If anyone thinks they are entitled to info on accidents, then why the hell were you not around when:
I had to purchase gear
Lost work
Had a worrying family
was tired
was hungry
Dealing with dead people is no fun at all(no, I don't have nightmares and no I do not need counseling). I don't even need a thankyou. what I and most if not all recovery divers need is for some of you to get down off your soap boxes and shut your pie hole. The very people that are helping a bad event like this are the ones that you are pissing on. you know who you are and when I see some of you in person I will tell you right to your face.
Safe Diving
Ted McCoy
