Doing Tech+Cave on a RB?

[webhead]

Oh man...I shouldn't have wandered into the scary tech rebreather forums...let me go back to all the other Quarry Commandos™! :shakehead
Geez, you let someone recirculate their breathing media and they jump on a high horse like nobody's business.

Sorry. Maybe I should have just said taking advice from someone who doesn't own, dive or been trained on a RB is like asking a desert dweller how to survive in the artic. Just doing my part to be more DIR.

 

[rjack321]

I always get a kick out of these threads that start off, "I'd like to save money on my tech diving by..."

Its not like just going straight ot RB is going to be cheap.

Will the OP save money? Maybe over the long haul. But will end up being a less versatile diver not being OC trained in doubles and mix. Heck I'm less versatile for not having a RB or RB training.

 

[JeffG]

Yes but it is easy to sort the wheat from the chaff over there

Perhaps. For you, yes. For someone that doesn't know RB's...maybe not. LOL But thats what you get for learning on the Internet

 

[limeyx]

Not sure I understand what you are saying... sounds something like - if you don't dive doubles before you start diving a RB, you'll need lots more (LONG) time before you are an "experienced" RB diver?

I'm not sure what you learn from diving doubles that helps you along the experience curve of a RB diver? Other than you're back won't hurt as much. I know it isn't buoyancy skills. How long did you dive doubles before moving to a RB? :20:
...

So you're 3000 feet into a cave at 100+feet on your RB when it craps out on you. How exactly do you plan on getting out of the cave?

Are you going to

a) always carry/stage enough stage bottles to get out of the cave
b) Wear doubles as well as the RB (negating a lot of the benefits of the RB) to allow you enough bailout gas
c) hope it doesn't happen.

I think you need to be *especially* proficient in all kinds of Open Circuit diving before taking an RB anywhere where bailout needs are significant.

This is regardless of the other inherent risks you get on an RB.

 

[Mr.X]

So you're 3000 feet into a cave at 100+feet on your RB when it craps out on you. How exactly do you plan on getting out of the cave?

Are you going to

a) always carry/stage enough stage bottles to get out of the cave
b) Wear doubles as well as the RB (negating a lot of the benefits of the RB) to allow you enough bailout gas
c) hope it doesn't happen.

I think you need to be *especially* proficient in all kinds of Open Circuit diving before taking an RB anywhere where bailout needs are significant.

This is regardless of the other inherent risks you get on an RB.

Ideally you take a redundant rebreather with you. The slung Joker style rebreathers would be ideal. Wish I had one.

I've dropped bottles along the way. Hell of a lot of work. It's nice to also have team members on CCR. They can leave bottles too. Even nicer if you had the WKPP members do your work.

 

[limeyx]

Ideally you take a redundant rebreather with you. The slung Joker style rebreathers would be ideal. Wish I had one.

I've dropped bottles along the way. Hell of a lot of work. It's nice to also have team members on CCR. They can leave bottles too. Even nicer if you had the WKPP members do your work.

So you now have two cantankerous monsters of maintenance to deal with? Given (at least around here) most CCR divers seem to dislike
- buddies
- carrying anything they dont have to (including enough bailout gas)

I'm wondering how many people really have the discipline for that. And then you reduce some of the benefits of carrying less gear, increase drag -- RB's aren't usually the smallest devices in the world, and how practical is it really to carry two RB's?

I know the EKPP are doing it but only as something of a last resort in caves where they simply cannot stage/carry enough gas for an OC bailout.

As far as I know, the WKPP does OC bailout on doubles and staged tanks.

 

[CCRDolphinDiver]

Interesting discussion, there is an old thread on RBW concerning skipping the tech type training and going directly to CCR after your entry level OC course, see Here In my humble opinion, I think I would have been much better off to skip the 2 years diving doubles that I did and going straight to a CCR. Unfortunally, when I went through that faze, there were not that many to choose from, plus I knew nothing about them. OC was, at that time, a known quantity. Doubles are a waste of money, if your intention is to dive CCR. Take that same time perfecting your skills on a CCR, especially buoyancy and trim, because you will have to relearn it on a CCR.

One year and at least 100 dives CCR in a variety of conditions could get one pretty close to being ready to think about caves, this will depend on the individiual, of course. Your instructor will be in a better position to asertain your skill levels.

As far as task loading, once you learn the unit, know the proper bailout skills and practice then frequently, there is no more task loading diving a CCR than OC. yes, a bit more prep, teardown time and care is required, but the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

As for the comment by limeyx, why dont you take the course and find out??

GUE has their way of doing things, and its not a bad way (if you discount the attitude that some member wear around like a hairy shirt), but they do not embrace the CCR pathway to anything. SCR's as a class of rebreather SUCK. This is not picking on the RB80 at all, its probably the best of the breed. However, for any kind of deco diving, all SCR's are no better than a long lasting cylinder of nitrox, they do not give the "best mix" except at one depth of the dive, CCR's give 'best mix" for the entire length of the dive and ALL depths, automatically, thereby providing the absolute fastest deco and least on gassing of any diving style.

Internet diving quarry commandos? There are everywhere, but honestly threre are WAY more here and at TDS than on RBW. wedivebc and webhead know, they divide their time equally, but I very rarely visit here for that reason. thanks Webhead for alerting me to this thread. BTW, wedivebc is on the cave trip to playa in january, so you guys should chat. Dave, Tim(webhead) is considering joining us there. work on him, he is on the fence Cheers, now Im off to visit helicopter school and look into my new career. :11:

 

[limeyx]

Interesting discussion, there is an old thread on RBW concerning skipping the tech type training and going directly to CCR after your entry level OC course,
...
As for the comment by limeyx, why dont you take the course and find out??

GUE has their way of doing things, and its not a bad way (if you discount the attitude that some member wear around like a hairy shirt), but they do not embrace the CCR pathway to anything. SCR's as a class of rebreather SUCK. This is not picking on the RB80 at all, its probably the best of the breed. However, for any kind of deco diving, all SCR's are no better than a long lasting cylinder of nitrox, they do not give the "best mix" except at one depth of the dive, CCR's give 'best mix" for the entire length of the dive and ALL depths, automatically, thereby providing the absolute fastest deco and least on gassing of any diving style.
...

Maybe one day I might, but after 3 CCR deaths locally in 8 weeks, I am less than inclined to put my life on the line that way. All of these were (as far as I know) in Open Water, less than 100 feet of water (one I believe was lost on the surface).

Sorry, I just don't believe diving a CCR is worth it, and probably not for a number of years at least.

And I think certain people might disagree that SCR's suck, but they might be the people doing 8hr bottom times at 300 feet and still getting out of the water hours ahead of what "conventional" deco models might suggest.

 

[rjack321]

Personally I would actually consider a daeger SCR (or RB80) for no-deco reef dives. To get closer to fish mostly. The more mechanical elements are "simple" for my brain to understand.

The electronics of CCRs scare me. Rational decision?, not really. Its hard to take a weekend "intro" course to just learn more about the particulars though.

Now a Cis-Lunar? I could dive one of those just for the rad factor.

 

[JeffG]

Personally I would actually consider a daeger SCR (or RB80) for no-deco reef dives. To get closer to fish mostly. The more mechanical elements are "simple" for my brain to understand.

The electronics of CCRs scare me. Rational decision?, not really. Its hard to take a weekend "intro" course to just learn more about the particulars though.

Now a Cis-Lunar? I could dive one of those just for the rad factor.

and I would lean more to the KISS for open water deco dives LOL

I will get a chance to try one next yr...we will see if my pocketbook takes a hit or not.