Doing Tech+Cave on a RB?

[rjack321]

and I would lean more to the KISS for open water deco dives LOL

I will get a chance to try one next yr...we will see if my pocketbook takes a hit or not.

Yeah but you still rely on the electronics to tell you the ppO2. Vs. with a draeger or and RB80 if you've got the right mix and you hear the solenoid firing you can be pretty sure you're not on the verge of toxing. Passing out is still a concern, harder to mechanically mitigate.

 

[Mr.X]

Maybe one day I might, but after 3 CCR deaths locally in 8 weeks, I am less than inclined to put my life on the line that way. All of these were (as far as I know) in Open Water, less than 100 feet of water (one I believe was lost on the surface).

Sorry, I just don't believe diving a CCR is worth it, and probably not for a number of years at least.

And I think certain people might disagree that SCR's suck, but they might be the people doing 8hr bottom times at 300 feet and still getting out of the water hours ahead of what "conventional" deco models might suggest.

If we are talking about WKPP, they have a very organized team with extensive experience and protocols in place. The incredible infrastructure yields results...even with the RB 80, or PVR-BASC.

It is distressing to see the spate of fatalities in Ca. It happens. It happened during the early days of the Inspiration rebreather too. If anything, the early data that I've seen seems to suggest some user error and by a extrapolation, a degree of failings on the part of their attitude, vetting processes, or training regimen. With the early Insp. fatalities, the training course was something in the neighborhood of three days. After the fatalities, training was amended. Folks can correct me here on my history.

IMO CCR use, or deep OC exploration all boils down to attitude.

 

[Mr.X]

and I would lean more to the KISS for open water deco dives LOL

I will get a chance to try one next yr...we will see if my pocketbook takes a hit or not.

The KISS is definitely a cute RB. That's how I would put it. If I were thinking exploration I would think of better equipped kits. The inability of the unit to dump water is a major deficit. Cis (new?), Meg, Boris, Prism, all contenders.

x

 

[wedivebc]

The KISS is definitely a cute RB. That's how I would put it. If I were thinking exploration I would think of better equipped kits. The inability of the unit to dump water is a major deficit. Cis (new?), Meg, Boris, Prism, all contenders.

x

Don't forget that a MCCR requires diver operation which may not be possible in a total silted out cave or wreck. I sold my kiss and bought a meg for that reason (among others)

 

[limeyx]

If we are talking about WKPP, they have a very organized team with extensive experience and protocols in place. The incredible infrastructure yields results...even with the RB 80, or PVR-BASC.

It is distressing to see the spate of fatalities in Ca. It happens. It happened during the early days of the Inspiration rebreather too. If anything, the early data that I've seen seems to suggest some user error and by a extrapolation, a degree of failings on the part of their attitude, vetting processes, or training regimen. With the early Insp. fatalities, the training course was something in the neighborhood of three days. After the fatalities, training was amended. Folks can correct me here on my history.

IMO CCR use, or deep OC exploration all boils down to attitude.

So you think the WKPP would have better results with less hassle on CCR-type rebreathers? Also, I believe GUE uses RB80's down to 400+ on OW wreck dives (Britannic, and S/S Maidan)

And how many "user errors" have to happen on CCR's before someone considers that maybe there is some kind of usability problem, or that *maybe* current CCR's are too dangerous for most divers who just are not able/willing to put in the time/money into gear, training and continual practice to be "safe"

For me the scary part of CCR is that the worst failure modes (Hypoxia, Hyperoxia) etc. can happen without the user of the unit really knowing about it or getting a reliable indication that it's happening. With OC (and from my understanding to an extent the RB80), you get some indication/prevention of those issues.

I do believe the "I'm invincible" attitude was partly (maybe even mostly) to blame in one SoCal accident this year. Didn't help that (from what I understand) 2 of the 3 were solo.

 

[Mr.X]

Don't forget that a MCCR requires diver operation which may not be possible in a total silted out cave or wreck. I sold my kiss and bought a meg for that reason (among others)

You know I've had the same thoughts after my last dive with the unit? My Meg is certainly the big boy. It's never given me much more than a small hiccup.

Hey Jeff...want one? Just kidding, I will put more time and money into it like I do all my tech toys because I am a knucklehead.

 

[JeffG]

You know I've had the same thoughts after my last dive with the unit? My Meg is certainly the big boy. It's never given me much more than a small hiccup.

Hey Jeff...want one? Just kidding, I will put more time and money into it like I do all my tech toys because I am a knucklehead.

Not yet. The meg is on the list to look at to, but I'm not in a big rush. But after humping my double 130's around, RB's look better and better all the time

 

[rjack321]

Don't forget that a MCCR requires diver operation which may not be possible in a total silted out cave or wreck. I sold my kiss and bought a meg for that reason (among others)

Are you really going to changing depth enough for this to be a factor? I wouldn't run one at 1.399 ppO2s just for this reason.

 

[Mr.X]

So you think the WKPP would have better results with less hassle on CCR-type rebreathers? Also, I believe GUE uses RB80's down to 400+ on OW wreck dives (Britannic, and S/S Maidan)

And how many "user errors" have to happen on CCR's before someone considers that maybe there is some kind of usability problem, or that *maybe* current CCR's are too dangerous for most divers who just are not able/willing to put in the time/money into gear, training and continual practice to be "safe"

For me the scary part of CCR is that the worst failure modes (Hypoxia, Hyperoxia) etc. can happen without the user of the unit really knowing about it or getting a reliable indication that it's happening. With OC (and from my understanding to an extent the RB80), you get some indication/prevention of those issues.

I do believe the "I'm invincible" attitude was partly (maybe even mostly) to blame in one SoCal accident this year. Didn't help that (from what I understand) 2 of the 3 were solo.

It's an interesting proposal eh? A Cis, or Meg in their hands would be quite interesting? Not that they would given the DIR philosophy. Just an "if" scenario.

Given the vast offerings of CCR's out there now, + varied protocols there is bound to be gaps somewhere. With GUE that variability is greatly reduced. There's a huge degree of "built-in" safety right there. On another note, I could have trained on the RB, or PVR years ago but having seen the fridge in action I thought...stay with the doubles and eventually moved to the CCR. My lower back and abdomen thanks me.

I wouldn't say that SCR's are necessarily safer. I do remember some issues with proper care, wrong mixes which may contributed to some SCR death on an either a RB clone, or PVR unit in Africa. Again, it's been a while.

If anything, the point I am trying to make is that attitude is the primary determinant in using these things, or expedition class diving. Attitude meaning: physical conditioning, desire to be a lifelong learner, never taking the cheap route, built-in degree of paranoia/global awareness and humility etc.

 

[rjack321]

never taking the cheap route

That's the first concern I have with the OP's desire to skip OC training and go straight to the RB. Its not the concept of doing so, its that one of the drivers is to save money.

Don't ever try to save money doing this stuff. 1) its futile and 2) its a dangerous attitude to have.