Doubles recommendations for a small framed women?

[Scott L]

Not sure if a different plate would help or not ... but you mentioned you're using a DSS short plate. I love DSS plates, but they're just about the flattest plates out there, with about the shallowest channel depth. A different plate, with a deeper bend angle and/or deeper channel might put the manifold a bit further behind your head. It's worth a try if you can find someone to loan you one.[/B]

That's excatly what I was thinking. I had the same issues diving several other rigs in the past but my problem was remedied when I switched to my Halcyon BP/wing as their plate moves the cylinder's away from one's back. I agree with Tobin that having the cylinder(s) closer to your body is benefical from a center of gravity issue but preventing one's head from banging on blunt metal must be remedied somehow. I would be willing to bet Tobin will have a quick remedy for your problem...

 

[rjack321]

That's excatly what I was thinking. I had the same issues diving several other rigs in the past but my problem was remedied when I switched to my Halcyon BP/wing as their plate moves the cylinder's away from one's back. I agree with Tobin that having the cylinder(s) closer to your body is benefical from a center of gravity issue but preventing one's head from banging on blunt metal must be remedied somehow. I would be willing to bet Tobin will have a quick remedy for your problem...

The depth of the V in the plate is irrelevant.

Assuming plates are bascially the same thickness (they all are plus-minus a couple millimeters) they all rest on the same places: shoulder blades, and kidneys depending on your exact shape. A different plate will at most get your tanks 1-2mm further away from your head.

Different strap lengths WILL make a big difference in where the tanks sit. From the sounds of the problem the shoulder straps are too tight. The consequence of this is to hike the tanks up high on your back. Try letting out 1" on the shoulders and tightening up the crotch strap by 1.25" or so. The harness should fit roughly the same but the tanks will be lower on your back Kathy.

 

[Scott L]

The depth of the V in the plate is irrelevant.

Assuming plates are bascially the same thickness (they all are plus-minus a couple millimeters) they all rest on the same places: shoulder blades, and kidneys depending on your exact shape. A different plate will at most get your tanks 1-2mm further away from your head.

Different strap lengths WILL make a big difference in where the tanks sit. For the sounds of the problem the shoulder straps are too tight. The consequence of this is to hike the tanks up high on your back. Try letting out 1" on the shoulders and tightening up the crotch strap by 1.25" or so. The harness should fit roughly the same but the tanks will be lower on your back Kathy.

This is off of DSS's web-site. Halycon's plate design is bowed out moving wing and cylinder away from one's back which also allows for a storage pack to be used. by the way, I also own a DSS rig. Great stuff!

"DSS back plate features angled harness slots and a much flatter profile than other plates. This results in greater comfort and a lower profile when used with a single tank.

Single tank cam strap slots are located to avoid interference with harness webbing.

Large diameter holes located near the plate edge permits easy attachment of clip on accessories. This not possible with ......"

 

[b1gcountry]

because of the head obstruction I am having trouble keeping an eye on my buddies upon ascent which I'm not ok with.

Keeping good SA, and knowing where your buddy is, is a lot more important than trim. If your head angle is making you lose focus, then relax your trim, and angle your body up to make up for it.

Good trim isn't your goal, it's a tool you use to achieve your other goals. 30-45* trim on an ascent won't be textbook, and won't look as pretty, but it isn't detrimental.

A tip my fundies instructor kept repeating to us was to extend you neck as far as you can and then tilt it back. If you just try to push you neck as far back as it can go, it will hit the isolator. If you try to make your neck really 'tall' first, and then tilt it back, it will often give you the extra little space you need to not hit the isolator.

Tom

 

[ae3753]

This is off of DSS's web-site. Halycon's plate design is bowed out moving wing and cylinder away from one's back which also allows for a storage pack to be used. by the way, I also own a DSS rig. Great stuff!

"DSS back plate features angled harness slots and a much flatter profile than other plates. This results in greater comfort and a lower profile when used with a single tank.

Single tank cam strap slots are located to avoid interference with harness webbing.

Large diameter holes located near the plate edge permits easy attachment of clip on accessories. This not possible with ......"

Applies for singles, but not doubles.

For singles, the tank rests on the ridge/crest. For doubles, the tanks hit the backs of the plate.

 

[Scott L]

If a plate is flatter than another plate it will create less of a space between your back and your tanks, etc. Maybe I am missing something here but I do not think so...

 

[rjack321]

If a plate is flatter than another plate it will create less of a space between your back and your tanks, etc. Maybe I am missing something here but I do not think so...

Put any plate on. Where does it rest? Across your shoulder blades and across your hips.

Put the plate on doubles, where does it lay when the bolts are tight - along the edges of the plate smushing the wing at those points.

The increase in V is merely allowing you to store stuff in the gap between the doubles. A flat plate allows for slightly bigger V-weights on the doubles side of the plate. A deeply V-ed plate potentially allows for a bigger lift bag in the H type storage pouch on the body side of the plate.

V depth does not influence where the manifold is or how much it hits your head as Tobin said below.

Plate bend and center channel depth has no effect on the position of the cylinders relative to the diver.

When using doubles the cylinders contact the outer edge of the back plate and the back plate contacts the diver in about the same spot.

Regardless of plate bend or center channel depth when using doubles the cylinders are offset from the divers back by about the thickness of the plate.

This is of course not the case with single tanks, but it is with doubles.

Edit, tank diameter does have a direct effect on the manifold position relative to the diver. 8" bottles , lp 95's 130's etc. put the manifold 1/2 further from the diver than 7 inch bottles such as faber lp 85's

Tobin

 

[Scott L]

Put any plate on. Where does it rest? Across your shoulder blades and across your hips.

Put the plate on doubles, where does it lay when the bolts are tight - along the edges of the plate smushing the wing at those points.

The increase in V is merely allowing you to store stuff in the gap between the doubles. A flat plate allows for slightly bigger V-weights on the doubles side of the plate. A deeply V-ed plate potentially allows for a bigger lift bag in the H type storage pouch on the body side of the plate.

V depth does not influence where the manifold is or how much it hits your head as Tobin said below.

Had lunch at home today and examined equipment. You are right with regard to a doubles set-up. Being wrong sucks! :depressed:

 

[Adobo]

Keeping good SA, and knowing where your buddy is, is a lot more important than trim. If your head angle is making you lose focus, then relax your trim, and angle your body up to make up for it.

Good trim isn't your goal, it's a tool you use to achieve your other goals. 30-45* trim on an ascent won't be textbook, and won't look as pretty, but it isn't detrimental.

This is they type of context that is difficult to convey outside a classroom setting. It's also the type of context that random divers might not have.

Even if one could make the adjustments such that at 20degree trim one could see other divers 3 feet above, if the diver assumes a 0 degree trim, the problem of not being able to see 3 feet above again reappears. Being able to be in good trim is nice. Also knowing when to use and when not to use is even nicer.

You know what they should do, they should design a class where these concepts are discussed and taught. Maybe the instructor can demonstrate these and other skills and ask each diver to try for themselves. For extra points, they can video the students and review the video for further discussion. I might send JJ an email and see if he thinks GUE could benefit by having such a class.

 

[Scott L]

This is they type of context that is difficult to convey outside a classroom setting. It's also the type of context that random divers might not have.

Even if one could make the adjustments such that at 20degree trim one could see other divers 3 feet above, if the diver assumes a 0 degree trim, the problem of not being able to see 3 feet above again reappears. Being able to be in good trim is nice. Also knowing when to use and when not to use is even nicer.

You know what they should do, they should design a class where these concepts are discussed and taught. Maybe the instructor can demonstrate these and other skills and ask each diver to try for themselves. For extra points, they can video the students and review the video for further discussion. I might send JJ an email and see if he thinks GUE could benefit by having such a class.

Are you suggesting a GUE course change directive to instruct/give permission to divers to temporarily deviate from horizonal trim in order to perform a important task underwater? Sadly, I have spoken to several tec instructors from other agencies who have complained that a few fundies attendees/grads had to be convinced to do just that...