Fin kicks explained?

[MikeFerrara]

DSJ,
Your getting the picture. No tests for divers or for that matter for instructors. At least their diving skill isn't tested. Do you ever dive Gilboa?

 

[DSJ]

What are the agencies doing if they are not certifying the diving skills of their instructors

A students attitude to diving and conception of what makes a good diver are formed by observing their first instructor. How could they be ignoring this?

Mike, do you have a personal "Dive Test Standards" book?

My diving career (all of 25 dives) was limited to a couple quarries in OH, Tobermoray (sp?), Alpena MI, and one trip to Key Largo. I consider the dip in Epcot's Living Seas five years ago a confined water dive.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and anything I do, I like to do well. Thus my interest in learning what it is I need to work on.

 

[MikeFerrara]

No, I don't have a book like that, at least not one that would help. You should meet our group up at Gilboa sometime. They're mostly goofy but their dive skills are solid. The thing is after AOW there isn't really any more training in diving technique. It's more than possible to become an instructor without being a very occomplished diver.

 

[DSJ]

Thanks for the invite. You are a bit of a drive for me, but I'll keep it in mind if I'm in the area.

I appreciate finding a good number of folks here who aren't satisfied with minimal skills.

 

[O-ring]

DSJ,

If flight instruction followed the same path I would be flying out of trim and full rich with no clue. Is there an equivalent to the flight test standards for diving? I need something to review to see what I missed out on.

Something like: Applicant must demostrate bouyancy control remaining three feet from the bottom +/- one foot. Applicant must describe the following fining techniques and when their use is appropriate. Candidate will demonstrate mastery by...

It sounds to me like you are describing a DIRF... To my knowledge, outside of excellent OW instructors like Mike, GUE is the only agency that holds divers to exacting standards like the ones you mention.

 

[DSJ]

... to develop skills criteria. Other than GUE, there doesn't appear to be a big push for basic competency. On the other hand I'm not ready for DIRF if for no other reason than I've got a recreational gear setup and don't think I can swim 200 yards. I'm in great shape, but I'd have to look into the Total Imersion method and get a bit of pool time.

I queried my bouyancy instructor last night about alternate finning such as the backward kick. He opined that it was a specialty kick only used by cave divers or some wreck penetrators. I then asked if it wouldn't be usefull if you found yourself drifting face first into coral. He replied it was a difficult kick to master and that most people who used it ended up propelling themselves forward first. Thus it appears he considers it a "technical" skill that isn't for everyone.

On the other hand, he was a stickler for using the minimum weight possible, streamlining the gear you have (no danglies) and critiqued our flutter kicks and breathing patterns. I watched the video from the first class and noted some pretty poor kicks with a large degree of pushing. It appears as though split fins are very forgiving of poor technique as these people were still moving forward.

I suppose this training situation stems from the great number of divers being trained. The agencies most likely want to make diving seem very easy to get into, and creating a more stringent test of skills would turn a fair number away. And people do seem to get away with minimal skills for shallow recreational diving, the prinicple loosers being the coral destroyed or fellow divers silted out. If you don't know what you are missing, how are you to know? Yet, there are always those folk who hold themselves to more exacting standards, whether from personal pride or necessity. Technical/cave divers fall into the second category, something I consider akin to space flight. Once you get deep, in depth or penetration, you are essentially beyond easy reach or rescue. Thus the same standards of training as those for space flight are aptly applied. I suspect there is a fair number of folk however, who don't plan on tec diving who nevertheless desire to master diving at the level they practice. We don't dive doubles and don't calculate best mixes. Yet we would like to move about with complete ease and control. We may not have regular buddies, and have to find partners on a trip. Thus we have to be even better at buddy management and self rescue.

 

[O-ring]

Unless you can find an instructor like Mike, you have to just watch the videos, read the books, and try on your own in the water. The best way is to find someone that is trained in those types of skills and dive with them.

I queried my bouyancy instructor last night about alternate finning such as the backward kick. He opined that it was a specialty kick only used by cave divers or some wreck penetrators. I then asked if it wouldn't be usefull if you found yourself drifting face first into coral. He replied it was a difficult kick to master and that most people who used it ended up propelling themselves forward first. Thus it appears he considers it a "technical" skill that isn't for everyone.

Hehe...like my dive buddy Rolf said while we were first learning the backward kick, "My backward kick is like a really, really inefficient forward kick." It does take time to master, but a few weeks in a quarry or other intensive practice should be enough. Some "get it" faster than others...

On the other hand, he was a stickler for using the minimum weight possible, streamlining the gear you have (no danglies) and critiqued our flutter kicks and breathing patterns. I watched the video from the first class and noted some pretty poor kicks with a large degree of pushing. It appears as though split fins are very forgiving of poor technique as these people were still moving forward.

Sounds like he is pretty decent then...a lot better than most other instructors out there. Using video is a serious step too...really useful training aid, IMHO.

I think your assessment is a good one. Some people don't care and holding divers to exacting standards would turn away all the lazies that just want to stand on the reef, vertically kick and scull to hold position, and stare at the pretty fishes going by. Others, regardless of "tech" or not, want to be good divers and think that you have to practice and train to attain that level.

On another note, this has nothing to do with being DIR or not....it just so happens that GUE is the only agency that holds divers to these types of standards and they teach DIR. I know divers that I dive with quite often that are not DIR and look really good in the water and genuinely care...

 

[MikeFerrara]

DSJ,
As I think you already realize good technique has nothing to do with the depth or difficulty of the dive. All divers and those around them will benifit. It is not as difficult as some would have you believe. In addition to the correct amount of weight it must be in the right place which is not always (if ever) where bc manufacturers place integrated weight pouches. Proper body positioning and finning technique is also required. Equipment streamlining is more than clipping your consol. The ability to control one's position and direction with precision is not a skill for cave or technical divers alone. What we a really talking about is diving 101. What is often passes off as dive training is just breathing under water.

This is my opinion but if I was wrong the vis would be better.

 

[DSJ]

So how about a non technical group to promote better dive skills? It wouldn't issue C cards, but something akin to Boy Scout merit badges. You would earn them for demonstrating proficency at various tasks such as bouyancy control, and different kicks. Collecting these badges would equate to real skills, and therefore mean something.

This would have two important effects. The first would be to make divers aware that the BOW and even AOW course is only the very begining when it comes to basic skills. The second would give them impetus to practice and atain a higer level. The second will not come without the first.

The group wouldn't have to teach any classes, though it might sponsor them. What it would have to do is develop the test standards (al la, the flight test standards books) and certify examiners. It would also provide a reading/video list to assist people in attaining the requisite skills.

David

 

[roakey]

DSJ once bubbled...
So how about a non technical group to promote better dive skills? It wouldn't issue C cards, but something akin to Boy Scout merit badges. You would earn them for demonstrating proficency at various tasks such as bouyancy control, and different kicks. Collecting these badges would equate to real skills, and therefore mean something.

Your solution is already available. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel.

The DIRF class is as technical or as non-technical as you want it. It doesn't issue ANY cards or badges. The only thing that can demonstrate proficiency is proficiency itself.

Again, DIR and DIRF is not about technical diving. It's about BETTER diving.

Roak