First Camcorder ...Input please!

[PerroneFord]

Gee, is anyone going to tell her about the rolling shutter potential problems on the CMOS cameras? Or the fact that she won't be able to monitor the LCD screen with the Ikelite housings? Or explain about the lack of white balance ability?

JoyfulNoise, please be aware that you are going to make some VERY large compromises with the cameras and housing you are looking at. Some of it simply because you are unwilling to carry around a bit more weight.

I wish you the best with your video.

 

[robint]

With all your help we have it down to three cannon camcorders. I think we are going to go with the lightest weight HD one. I can't thank you enough for all your help! We were doing our homework, but really overwhelmed with all the different camcorders. We used your input to focus on Sony and Cannon. Then we got it down to the Cannon ones. And we will be getting an Ikelite housing. I will let you know what we end up with and you know I'll be posting alot in the section once I get my camera. I think my husband is just trying to figure out who to buy the Cannon from right now. I'm very excited! This is a big challenge for me, but I'm learning more and more about editing the video I have!

My husband and I thank all of you!

If you go with a Canon camcorder and an Ikelite housing, be aware that there is NO reverse circuitry for the mirror. That means that when using the rig, the mirror image will be reversed from actually what you are seeing. If you go with a Sony camcorder, there is a plug that goes from the LANC on the camcorder to the housing, this reverses the image back so that you see in the mirror what you are actually seeing correctly. This is very important..... Only Sony camcorders have a LANC plugin therefore they are the only camcorders which can be used for any electronic housing, also.

 

[robint]

Gee, is anyone going to tell her about the rolling shutter potential problems on the CMOS cameras? Or the fact that she won't be able to monitor the LCD screen with the Ikelite housings? Or explain about the lack of white balance ability?

JoyfulNoise, please be aware that you are going to make some VERY large compromises with the cameras and housing you are looking at. Some of it simply because you are unwilling to carry around a bit more weight.

I wish you the best with your video.

You are wrong about the Ikelite housings for all Sony HD camcorders. Yes, there is a a way to monitor the LCD screen, it is a mirror and a reverse-circuitry unit that switches the picture back - I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE ONE AND USE IT.
Also, the HD units DO have access to white balance.
Read about it here:
Digital Video Housing for Sony HC-7 & HC-9
"Controls for the Camera Control Dial, Manual Button and the LCD Screen Touch Pad provide full access to setting white balance and white balance shift.

The camera’s LCD monitor can be viewed from the rear of the housing, using the External Mirror featured on the side of the housing. "

robin

 

[PerroneFord]

Thanks Robin. I also have an Ikelite housing, but for a miniDV Canon. The mirror solution is ok, but not quite the same as having a monitor or a pass through window on a L&M or Gates.

There has still been no information offered to the poster on potential rolling shutter issues that she might face on a boat or underwater. Not saying it WILL be a problem, but someone should educate her a bit before she spends her money. I have an EX1 and knew what I was getting into. She certainly won't.

 

[robint]

Thanks Robin. I also have an Ikelite housing, but for a miniDV Canon. The mirror solution is ok, but not quite the same as having a monitor or a pass through window on a L&M or Gates.

There has still been no information offered to the poster on potential rolling shutter issues that she might face on a boat or underwater. Not saying it WILL be a problem, but someone should educate her a bit before she spends her money. I have an EX1 and knew what I was getting into. She certainly won't.

I agree, I want to educate her before she buys.... but with good information. That is why I did the post regarding Canon and the mirror issue. I have seen someone get the Ikelite housing for a Canon camcorder and then be frustrated with the reversed image.

I don't have that problem as Ike himself spoke to me about it and gave me for free the reverse circuitry they had just developed for the HD housings. He told me the try it out and see what I thought. Well, I love it and for 2+ years I have been using it with zero problems. I have another friend who spent 3x what I did to get a L&M housing for his camcorder the same time I got my Ikelite. He has had nothing but problems with the monitor (sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't). He has sent it back for repairs more than once.

So there is no perfect system. I can't afford a L&M or Seatool or any of the other electronic housings. I just don't have the money as video is just a hobby for me. We have 3 divers in our family, me and hubby doing most of diving as daughter is in college now. My still camera is now in the hubby's hands. So with the cost of gear for him and me both, dive trips x2, there is no $$$$ left for expensive housings. My Ikelite works for me and I get pretty decent stuff with my little old camcorder (Sony HC-42, discontinued but still works). I do hope to upgrade my camcorder in the next year to a Sony HD, and I will get the Ikelite housing for it. But for now, what I have works.
We all have to decide what our budget is and what we want to spend our money on.

robin

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks Robin. I also have an Ikelite housing, but for a miniDV Canon. The mirror solution is ok, but not quite the same as having a monitor or a pass through window on a L&M or Gates.

There has still been no information offered to the poster on potential rolling shutter issues that she might face on a boat or underwater. Not saying it WILL be a problem, but someone should educate her a bit before she spends her money. I have an EX1 and knew what I was getting into. She certainly won't.

Okay, now I'm very nervous! What is rolling shutter issue? And also someone mentioned white balance problems (which I already experience using my point and shoot...I don't always get it right).

I'm keep reading, thanks for posting. I think I need to do more research. I know I must be careful with the weight of the camera due to my fibromyalgia. I know I can have my dive buddy help me, but I try to be as independent as I can manage.

Going back to look at some of those Sonys.

 

[diversteve]

There has still been no information offered to the poster on potential rolling shutter issues that she might face on a boat or underwater. Not saying it WILL be a problem, but someone should educate her a bit before she spends her money. I have an EX1 and knew what I was getting into. She certainly won't.

In the first place, why aren't you? After mentioning it twice..

I think that you have to agree that for hobbyist video it likely isn't an issue. If it was why is everybody buying CMOS cameras. This being the 3rd or 4th generation of Sony HDV CMOS cameras, I doubt they'd still be selling them if it was a big problem. Granted it's probably different from your perspective being in the industry.

Rollling shutter issues explained:
CMOS Rolling Shutter

 

[diversteve]

I'm keep reading, thanks for posting. I think I need to do more research. I know I must be careful with the weight of the camera due to my fibromyalgia. I know I can have my dive buddy help me, but I try to be as independent as I can manage.

Going back to look at some of those Sonys.

As is probably the case with your still camera, there's a big difference between the weight on the surface vs. underwater - at least with some models. One thing about Ikelite is that they have a pretty big base weight to compensate for air in their housing since it's in essence a rectangular box. It's removable for transport so that's an advantage.

Other mfr's may have models that more closely conform to the camera shape reducing this need.

Some of the mfr's specify both the airborne and underwater weight of their housing to give you an idea. Personally I like mine 1-2 lbs' negative, it helps with holding position in currents and if I set it down it stays where I put it. Handy when filming garden eels and shy stuff.

Post what camera/housing options you're specifically considering and maybe someone can comment on them. Likely someone here has the same setup, there's not that many available options given your criteria.

 

[PerroneFord]

In the first place, why aren't you? After mentioning it twice..

Honestly, because I hoped someone would have a succinct explanation in laymans terms, and not the long-winded and technical one that I would likely have offered.

I think that you have to agree that for hobbyist video it likely isn't an issue. If it was such a big issue why is everybody buying CMOS cameras. This being the 3rd or 4th generation of Sony HDV CMOS cameras, I doubt they'd still be selling them if it was a big problem. Granted it's probably different from your perspective being in the industry.

Ordinarily, I'd agree and say it's not an issue. BUT, the one instance where I did REALLY see it become and issue, was on a boat. And that boat merely had the engines running producing a harmonic effect that brought out the "jellovision" that CMOS is famous for. If the OP was land-based, I wouldn't have said anything.

The marine market is SO small, I think it probably escapes mention by most. But in these particular environments, I believe it warrants mentioning. Frankly, in owning a 3-chip CMOS camera, I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion, BUT it really could be an issue for someone trying to film on a boat. Underwater, probably not so much.

 

[diversteve]

Guess I can't comment on that since I've never filmed on a boat. Have to check it out next time.