First solo dives!

[Neilwood]

Question to those who advocate for taking a formal solo training:

I don't quite get what a formal solo training can teach that experience and advanced (or even open water?) class can't? Equipment failures are bad. Running out of air is bad. Don't we all know that? If something goes wrong we must address/replace that underwater - put a different 2nd stage in your mouth, replace/clear mask, etc. - didn't we practice that in the OWD class? When you dive solo, you have to be able to address those situations with resources that you yourself carry (including a pony) - isn't that obvious? If you are diving without some of those things (a pony, a spare mask, etc., etc.) you are taking a calculated risk, which is quite comparable to the risk of diving with a stranger for a "buddy".

What am I missing? Why would I invest time and money in more books and class time rather than go to a local pool and practice with my gear?

[PS. I'm sure these half-rhetorical questions have been asked countless times before, but same is true for many arguments made in this thread against "untrained" divers diving solo ]

I have never solo dived (although I do plan to take a course in the future). In my mind though solo diving is easy until the SHTF moment. If you are a thinking diver and willing to put in the practise and pay for redundant gear, then solo without training might be a reasonable route. There is always the thing about learning from others mistakes though that courses tend to give you. You are right about the calculated risk but do you really know the extent of the risk without training?

It is one thing talking about and practising switching masks, using a pony etc when not under stress but an entirely different matter using them while all alone.with no support. Can you perform a mask change without having your buoyancy all over the shop? Can you deploy a pony in an emergency solo without getting your gear tangled? What is the best set up for your gear (given you might choose to change a few things for going solo)?

 

[Scuba-74]

Can you perform a mask change without having your buoyancy all over the shop? Can you deploy a pony in an emergency solo without getting your gear tangled? What is the best set up for your gear (given you might choose to change a few things for going solo)?

These are great questions, and I would argue I should practice doing these things in a somewhat controlled environment (lake maybe) with a buddy, I don't have to have an instructor next to me.

 

[doctormike]

(I kind of feel like I did something wrong since I’m not trained nor had a pony tank, but it was SO much fun!).... I think needing 100 dives just to take self reliant is BS.

This is an excellent example of normalization of deviance.

The issue isn't that a solo dive to 25 FSW in clear warm water with no alternate gas source is high risk or not survivable.

The issue is that cheering on someone for "ignoring the naysayers" and doing this with very little diving experience is a bad idea in general. It's not about specific skills, it's about experience, comfort in the water and respect for the sport. That's why PADI and SDI require 100 dives. Implying that this requirement is BS, or that specific gear and training isn't necessary sets a bad example for other new divers reading the thread.

 

[Bob DBF]

The issue is that cheering on someone for "ignoring the naysayers" and doing this with very little diving experience is a bad idea in general.

This would depend on the divers abilities in the water, with and without scuba gear, and their personal judgement.

It's not about specific skills, it's about experience, comfort in the water and respect for the sport

Agreed. But some have those skills before they take up SCUBA.

That's why PADI and SDI require 100 dives.

I'd think it's more a toss up its between arbitrary and insurance.

Implying that this requirement is BS, or that specific gear and training isn't necessary sets a bad example for other new divers reading the thread.

The specific gear and formal training "necessary" are rather new to solo diving. Whether or not 100 dive requirement is BS is a matter of opinion, for some no requirement would be fine, others shouldn't regardless of how many dives they have. New divers should understand solo is not a joke like their OW class was, but can end badly if not taken seriously.

@Aloha Joe tried and enjoyed solo, he will do it again, the solo forum is a good place to learn how to inch out on a limb and not cut it off behind you.


Bob

 

[doctormike]

The issue is that cheering on someone for "ignoring the naysayers" and doing this with very little diving experience is a bad idea in general.

This would depend on the divers abilities in the water, with and without scuba gear, and their personal judgement.

Are you saying that dive-specific training and gear is a matter of personal judgement? Or are you saying that the solo forum is an appropriate venue for training? And who determines whether the diver has acceptable abilities?

The specific gear and training "necessary" are rather new to solo diving.
@Aloha Joe tried and enjoyed solo, he will do it again, the solo forum is a good place to learn how to inch out on a limb and not cut it off behind you.

What do you mean by the scare quotes around the word "necessary"? Go back and substitute "decompression procedures" for "solo" in this thread and see how it reads. Special training for DP is a recent development. No reason why someone with 10 dives couldn't make it to the surface with a few minutes of deco obligation. Many people just tried deco diving and enjoyed it, especially in ideal conditions.

Look, Bob... I know that you want to be supportive to a new diver who is having fun with the sport. I do too. It makes me happy to see the enthusiasm, and I love solo diving.

But the reason why I care enough to push back on the usual cheerleading is that someday someone with 20 dives will read this thread and say "hmmm... a lot of very experienced divers are saying that I can just do solo diving and work out for myself whether I have the confidence, water skills, experience and gear to do it safely".

THAT is normalization of deviance.

 

[Aloha Joe]

FWIW I will wait before trying solo diving again. You’re all helping reinforce the risk and need for proper skills and knowledge.

I now have a better understanding of the “100 dive requirement” - for the very least of knowing your gear.

The way PADI pitches the course,though, is not a “solo certification”. They talk about being self reliant even in the presence of other divers, and the risks of diving alone. So I have to wait 100 dives to better understand the risks and become a better dive partner. Meanwhile I’ve got close to 20 dives in Hawaii, on charters where hardly anyone is paying attention to anyone else, where most divers are not very experienced, and where I have no idea if I can trust any of them in an emergency situation.

If I feel like I’m diving alone on chartered dives and can’t take self reliant dive courses, is that a one way street to quit diving? Maybe diving should be limited to married couples? Maybe PADI should require you to show up with a dive buddy to OW class. I’m being somewhat facetious.

I’m also now more pissed off about my crappy PPB instructor. Changing a mask while keeping altitude could be one of the skills. We hardly did any skills and buoyancy was only checked in one condition/scenario. I have been practicing at least clearing my mask without ascending...

“During the Self-Reliant Diver course, you learn about potential risks of diving alone and the value of equipment redundancy and necessary back-up gear. During three scuba dives, you develop skills for self-reliance and independence, while becoming a stronger partner in a dive pair or team.”

 

[NatureLVR]

FWIW I will wait before trying solo diving again. You’re all helping reinforce the risk and need for proper skills and knowledge.

I now have a better understanding of the “100 dive requirement” - for the very least of knowing your gear.

The way PADI pitches the course,though, is not a “solo certification”. They talk about being self reliant even in the presence of other divers, and the risks of diving alone. So I have to wait 100 dives to better understand the risks and become a better dive partner. Meanwhile I’ve got close to 20 dives in Hawaii, on Charles where hardly anyone is paying attention to anyone else, where most divers are not very experienced, and where I have no idea if I can trust any of them in an emergency situation.

If I feel like I’m diving alone on chartered dives and can’t take self reliant dive courses, is that a one way street to quit diving? Maybe diving should be limited to married couples? Maybe PADI should require you to show up with a dive buddy to OW class.

I’m also now more pissed off about my crappy PPB instructor. Changing a mask while keeping altitude could be one of the skills. We hardly did any skills and buoyancy was only checked in one condition/scenario. I have been practicing at least clearing my mask without ascending...

“During the Self-Reliant Diver course, you learn about potential risks of diving alone and the value of equipment redundancy and necessary back-up gear. During three scuba dives, you develop skills for self-reliance and independence, while becoming a stronger partner in a dive pair or team.”

SDI also teaches the solo diver certification. You could always pick up the solo diver course book from a place like Dive Gear Express if you want some info ahead of time. That way you would know what to expect when the day come that you take the course.

 

[oldschoolto]

Sarcasm on..... Yes.. After three dives you'll be fine to solo dive.. just send in the check and once the cards in your wallet.. You are going to know everything!!!... Sarcasm off...

I've seen more dive masters that shouldn't be in a kiddy pool alone..

Cards mean nothing....

Jim..

 

[RayfromTX]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Dear members
As moderators, we are in discussion about how to handle this thread. It was moved to solo diving but we are moving it back to the new divers forum while we continue to discuss this. The point has been made that if a new diver came on the board and said he had just done a trimix dive to 250 feet on his tenth dive, we wouldn't move it to the technical diving forum. This is an opportunity to help new divers to understand the importance of training and experience and to understand the issues they might not be aware of related to solo diving in an atmosphere of teaching and patience with new divers.

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[MichaelMc]

FWIW I will wait before trying solo diving again. You’re all helping reinforce the risk and need for proper skills and knowledge.

I now have a better understanding of the “100 dive requirement” - for the very least of knowing your gear.

The way PADI pitches the course,though, is not a “solo certification”. They talk about being self reliant even in the presence of other divers, and the risks of diving alone. So I have to wait 100 dives to better understand the risks and become a better dive partner. Meanwhile I’ve got close to 20 dives in Hawaii, on charters where hardly anyone is paying attention to anyone else, where most divers are not very experienced, and where I have no idea if I can trust any of them in an emergency situation.

If I feel like I’m diving alone on chartered dives and can’t take self reliant dive courses, is that a one way street to quit diving? Maybe diving should be limited to married couples? Maybe PADI should require you to show up with a dive buddy to OW class. I’m being somewhat facetious.

I’m also now more pissed off about my crappy PPB instructor. Changing a mask while keeping altitude could be one of the skills. We hardly did any skills and buoyancy was only checked in one condition/scenario. I have been practicing at least clearing my mask without ascending...

“During the Self-Reliant Diver course, you learn about potential risks of diving alone and the value of equipment redundancy and necessary back-up gear. During three scuba dives, you develop skills for self-reliance and independence, while becoming a stronger partner in a dive pair or team.”

Good points on trapped with weaker training until you have enough experience to get more training.

But many of the solo skills show up in other classes. Rec fundies is one example, also any intro to tech. In terms of managing buoyancy (aka control in the water), stage/pony, SMB, mask change, gas planning. If you focus on learning to be a rock solid diver, possibly carrying and practicing with pony and spare mask, but still with a buddy, then you will be safer while you build up to 100 dives, and you will be walking the walk of a more self reliant diver.

Then, at 100 dives, you can get a hard outside look, from a solo instructor, as to whether you really have the mind set and temperament to be a safe solo diver.