Fisheye FIX for the S90

[Peter Guy]

OK -- question for you "pros" out here. I'm still using my S80 with the Canon housing and have the Inon 28AD Mount Base for it. I want to get a macro and wide angle wet lens for the system but one that will work for the S90 (S100?) after the S80 finally floods/dies. Which macro and which wide angle wet lens should I get that will work well with the S80 but which I can keep and work when I finally upgrade?

 

[Nemrod]

OK -- question for you "pros" out here. I'm still using my S80 with the Canon housing and have the Inon 28AD Mount Base for it. I want to get a macro and wide angle wet lens for the system but one that will work for the S90 (S100?) after the S80 finally floods/dies. Which macro and which wide angle wet lens should I get that will work well with the S80 but which I can keep and work when I finally upgrade?

This is simple, if you already have 28AD lenses then you would get the FIX90 with the 28AD kit. Or, eBay the S80 and start fresh.

But, do you realize there is no waiting, these cameras and housings are a barely one year cycle. By summer I bet Canon is introducing a new model, it will not fit existing housings, may have features that are great for surface photography (like long zoom X lens and movie crap) but which render it unsuitable for UW photography. The S90 is the first full feature, fully manual, compatible with a wide range of lenses product in a long time--this does not happen often.

So, what I am saying is that there is no waiting, jump, swim or sink or hope that maybe luck will smile and Canon will have a suitable option in 2011 year, maybe, maybe not, might be another three years.

There is no guarantee that the S100/S???? will be a useful underwater camera, given the past history, I would assume they would take a good thing and ruin it, then what? Bird in hand, worth many in bush.

N

 

[CompuDude]

OK -- question for you "pros" out here. I'm still using my S80 with the Canon housing and have the Inon 28AD Mount Base for it. I want to get a macro and wide angle wet lens for the system but one that will work for the S90 (S100?) after the S80 finally floods/dies. Which macro and which wide angle wet lens should I get that will work well with the S80 but which I can keep and work when I finally upgrade?

I'm using the same Inon UCL-165AD lenses that I used with my S80 on my Fix housing with the S90. You just need a $12 adapter so the lenses are spaced properly with the 28AD adapter (which has slightly different spacing to the regular AD adapters).

I don't have an answer for you re wide angle, at this point...

 

[Nemrod]

Sure, I'll see if I can measure it when I get home.

I'd really love to be able to use the nice, compact Inon 165, for all the reasons you mentioned. I just hate threading lenses on underwater... and switching among options (using the AD bayonet connectors) is a big part of my diving. No lens, macro lens, wide angle lens (someday)... three shots, three options, that's how I roll. If I wanted to be stuck with one lens throughout an entire dive, I would have given more consideration to just saving my pennies for a DSLR. God knows my little S90 project cost so much I'm a lot closer to DSLR territory that I ever would have imagined for a compact camera.

Ryan at Reef was pondering a lens caddy for the various Fix adapters... let would let me switch among 28AD for my macro and M67 for the Fix lens (or Nemrod-style adapter with the Inon 165). I wonder if that will come about? I have concerns about long term viability, though... I'd think constantly popping that adapter on and off, while easy enough, would eventually wear via friction and cause the $200 adapters to become loose and not hold on strongly enough.

If you have the AD adapter, such as the one from 10Bar (or me with mine) you do not have to thread on and off, just hold the adapter and twist the bayonet lens on and off like always. Then you can shift from AD macro to nothing to AD wide angle, no threading on and off.

I wish those FIX adapters were priced reasonable at 75 dollars and not 200. I love the camera, I love the housing, the adapters seem fine but for the price!!!!

Yeah, I don't know about popping them on and off underwater, the 28AD and ST kits seems to have a pinch release? The 67mm threaded does not, it snaps on and it takes a bit of force, which is fine by me, I want it solid.

You know, Optical Ocean has the AD adapter for a excellent price BTW, it is a little thicker than my DIY but what the heck, good price and it works fine.

Yes, please get that measurement if you can without hurting anything, no big deal if you cannot. Thanks.

Another thing, Fisheye makes a 67mm threaded ST adapter. It is about 30 dollars, I think, not certain, that the ST version of the Fisheye lens would then be able to bayonet into the FIX67mm lens kit, if you follow. I have one I got last summer. Reef carries it, it would place the lens about 1/32 proud of where it would be, my guess, with the FIX ST lens adapter. Just so you know. Would it work or cause vignetting, I cannot answer.

N

 

[CompuDude]

Compu, if you have the 28AD adapter?? could you measure from the face of the adapter to the port surface of the housing? Maybe that would tell us why the FIX page example is "odd".

Sure, I'll see if I can measure it when I get home.

Got the measurement.

From the port glass to the outermost edge of the 28AD adapter, it appears to be 1.4 cm (14mm), perhaps .5mm more (my little plastic ruler here is not as precise as I'd like).

Interestingly, just for giggles, I took the 28AD adapter that I was sold for using my UCL-165AD lenses with this housing off, and discovered (gingerly!) that I can actually thread the into the Fix 28AD adapter without bottoming out and hitting the glass. I don't know if the camera can focus with the lenses in that position, but I measured the flat of the back of lens' ring (which actually contacts the housing/adapter) to the max depth of the inside lens, and it appears to me almost the exact same measurement... I'd guess about 14.5-15 mm as well. It must barely be missing the glass in there.

With the 28AD adapter ring on my UCL-165AD lenses, the bottom of the lens is actually perhaps .5mm shallower than the edge of the ring, so it's being held considerably farther off the glass.

Fix S90 Housing with 28AD adapter:

Depth of 28AD adapter to glass:

Depth of Inon UCL-165AD:

Inon UCL-165AD with 28AD adapter ring attached:

What do you think, Nem?

 

[Nemrod]

Compu, I am momentarily confused. I am trying to figure out how FIX mounted the 165AD-FE lens in the 28AD mount? Do you think they used the 28AD adapter you have on your macro AD lens?

I just did a quick measurement, I will take another latter, but, I read 1.5cm or just under for the 10BAR adapter in the 67mm FIX mount from face of mount to port glass.

If FIX in their demo photo page used the AD to 28AD adapter to mount the 165AD-FE lens then I think it would result in it being approx 2 to 3mm further from the port glass. This could explain why their example vignettes and my camera and lens do not appreciably do so. Additionally, my DIY adapter is yet another 1 to 1.5mm closer yet.

When I install my Inon AD fisheye lens into the 10BAR adapter and thread it into the FIX front snap-on clip, the aft lens of the 165AD is flush to the aft face of that clip plate. In my original DIY version the rear lens element is slightly proud.

N

 

[CompuDude]

Compu, I am momentarily confused. I am trying to figure out how FIX mounted the 165AD-FE lens in the 28AD mount? Do you think they used the 28AD adapter you have on your macro AD lens?

They might have.

It might be helpful to have the same measurement as I did in my 3rd shot, above (with my macro lenses), if anyone has the UFL-165AD lens handy.

One thing I don't fully have my brain wrapped around is how these lenses focus. I assume they have to be a very precise distance from the lens (both macro and WA) in order to get a focused shot? Or does the focus mechanism in the camera take care of that, no matter where the lens is placed? (ignoring vignetting issues) *IF* the UFL-165AD fits the Fix 28AD adapter, and focus is not an issue why bother with the 28AD adapter ring? Same deal for my macro lenses, actually.

You know, now that I think about it *smacks head* my regular dive buddy has the UFL-165AD lens and dives with it all the time. I'll have to grab it from her next time we're out and just see how it compares, from a depth standpoint, and if I can thread it into my housing or not!

Why I didn't tap her shoulder and borrow it for a moment on Saturday, I have no idea. I could have answered a lot of questions!!!

 

[Nemrod]

They might have.

It might be helpful to have the same measurement as I did in my 3rd shot, above (with my macro lenses), if anyone has the UFL-165AD lens handy.

One thing I don't fully have my brain wrapped around is how these lenses focus. I assume they have to be a very precise distance from the lens (both macro and WA) in order to get a focused shot? Or does the focus mechanism in the camera take care of that, no matter where the lens is placed? (ignoring vignetting issues) *IF* the UFL-165AD fits the Fix 28AD adapter, and focus is not an issue why bother with the 28AD adapter ring? Same deal for my macro lenses, actually.

You know, now that I think about it *smacks head* my regular dive buddy has the UFL-165AD lens and dives with it all the time. I'll have to grab it from her next time we're out and just see how it compares, from a depth standpoint, and if I can thread it into my housing or not!

Why I didn't tap her shoulder and borrow it for a moment on Saturday, I have no idea. I could have answered a lot of questions!!!

Maybe it was a duh moment. Yes, it might answer some questions for certain. It is not just an academic question, while some may be completely bored with all this, it might be helpful to a few people since these lenses and adapters are not cheap.

On the focus, the wet lenses are essentially neutral to the focus of the camera, they do shift the focus point some but since the auto focus system is in charge of focus you do not notice the effect. With the 165AD FE the focus is from dome port to infinity or close. I suspect that long distance (infinity) focus could be impossible with some of these, distances beyond which they would be used normally. Now, the distance from rear element to camera lens, yes, this is critical and is even addressed in the Inon Lens catalog PDF. If the lens is too far away you can see a "coke bottle" effect, the periphery of the image goes out of focus and the further the lenses are apart the zone of focus sharpness decreases. This is how I can look at some of the images sometimes and "authoritatively" (lol) say that the lens is to far away from the camera lens--I can see this effect. However, I have described it as a "sweet spot" wherein anywhere in that zone the image is acceptable if not perfect. This is why I obsess on getting the lenses as close as practical, it is important for correct operation. I am pretty darn sure, and will stick with it until shown different, the DC-35 will never uses these wide angle lenses effectively. I should have gotten you to take some measurements before you sent that gift back.

Here you can see the FIX90 housing with the aft part of the 3 piece FIX adapter in place, then you can see the 67mm threaded snap-on part of the FIX adapter, it snaps over and onto the piece that is on the housing, you can also see the 10Bar AD/67mm adapter in order of assembly:

Here you can see that when the FIX kit "snap-on" piece is attached to the 10Bar adapter and the lens is installed and that the rear element of the lens is essentially flush with the aft edge of the piece. I think you can see that this results in the wet lens rear element being held in fairly close proximity to the housing port glass:

Now, going back to the FIX demo page, something is not right, for the 165AD-FE to have almost the same apparent magnification as the 105AD WAL (or plain 100WAL) it would have to be zoomed to about 50mm equivalent or more, not the 35mm I have tested and shown the results in the "hot tub" pics. I did not take the pic, but in the hot tub I zoomed the 165AD-FE to 50mm and that is what I think in that demo pic with the 165AD-FE lens, they were at 50mm for whatever reason, to eliminate vignetting with the 28AD adapter kit or accident or something.

N

 

[anferney]

I see that reefphoto is now listing two AD adaptors for the Fisheye FIX housing (both 28AD and normal AD) I wonder if the normal AD adapter will work well with my UFL-165AD lens...

28AD - FIX S90 Inon 28AD Mount Lens Adapter [fix.s90.28ad.adapter] - $190.00 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros
AD - FIX S90 Inon AD Mount Lens Adpater [fix.s90.ad.adapter] - $190.00 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros

 

[CompuDude]

I see that reefphoto is now listing two AD adaptors for the Fisheye FIX housing (both 28AD and normal AD) I wonder if the normal AD adapter will work well with my UFL-165AD lens...

28AD - FIX S90 Inon 28AD Mount Lens Adapter [fix.s90.28ad.adapter] - $190.00 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros
AD - FIX S90 Inon AD Mount Lens Adpater [fix.s90.ad.adapter] - $190.00 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros

That's extremely interesting. There's nothing about a plain AD (non-28AD) adapter on the Fisheye site. I'll have to give Reef a call and ask what's up. I'm going to be pissed if I wasted nearly $200 on an adapter when a different one would have been better...