Fourth Diver this year dies at Gilboa

[Divin'Papaw]

Unless I misunderstood Jodie, it's tomorrow (Friday) at 10am.

Are you going to be able to make it? Not many folks more qualified to answer questions.

 

[scubapolly]

So... aside from all the forms and current equipment requirements/recommendations that are currently in place, what are the "real world" options for Mike at Gilboa to consider?

Should he only allow those with Recreational Helium certs (e.g. IANTD, GUE, NAUI) and above (e.g. Tech certs) to dive on the deep side?

Should someone have to have a certain quantity of dives at Gilboa to be eligible for the deep side?

Should a person need to be "guided" on their first Gilboa Deep dive(s) with someone that Mike W. trusts?

How does he make "the rubber meet the road" here without closing the place down?

Personally I'd like to see the deep dock off limits to AOW students. I quit taking students off the deep dock a couple years ago because there are just too many things that can go wrong over there. Not to mention students who really aren't equiped for the dive. AOW requires below 60 feet. The tubes are a much better option for this in my opinon.

I'd also like to see redundant gear required for diving the deep side (however the gear does you no good unless you know how to use it)- pony, H-valve, or doubles.

 

[scubapolly]

On December 31, Mike will have anyheres from 15,000 to 17,000 waivers in his files; that means that number of "first timers" for the year because on the form are 10 more spots for signitures for repeat visits.

You were exactly who I had in mind for the more accurate info.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I'd also like to see redundant gear required for diving the deep side (however the gear does you no good unless you know how to use it)- pony, H-valve, or doubles.

Polly ... Mike does require redundancy now, at least based upon the deep dive form and the conversation my instructor and I had with him.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Personally I'd like to see the deep dock off limits to AOW students. I quit taking students off the deep dock a couple years ago because there are just too many things that can go wrong over there. Not to mention students who really aren't equiped for the dive. AOW requires below 60 feet. The tubes are a much better option for this in my opinon.

I whole heartedly agree with the principles on which you bas your comments. I would like to see instructors stop using the deep side for AOW classes but I would rather it not be a "rule". I would like to see better jedgement on the part of instructors. I never taught an AOW class over there but I saw a few and my wife did her AOW deep dive there...and that was not a pretty sight.

I did make the mistake of teaching a PADI deep diver specialty there once or twice but I stopped that and it wasn't long before I just stopped offering that class at any depth.

I used to teach advanced nitrox on the deep side but those divers were after a fair number of (sometimes MANY) shallow skill focused dives.

I'd also like to see redundant gear required for diving the deep side (however the gear does you no good unless you know how to use it)- pony, H-valve, or doubles.

Again, I think such equipment is a good idea but i hate to see it a "requirement". I much prefer to see divers who know what the risks are and have a plan to deal with them.

"We" might be able to baby sit and force sound practices on divers at certain locations. What about the other locations where there are no controls? Do "we" want to help those divers stay alive or just make sure they stay alive while they are at Gilboa.

I might be hard on some of the agencies for their traiing standards and methods but I hate regulation and I really hate this whole c-card thing. If it were up to me, we would all count to three and on three cut up every single c-card that we have. Then watch property owners and charters try to figure out how to manage things and see how the agencies and dive shops market classes when no one needs a piece of plastic.

IMO, the stupid pieces of plastic and the "rules"/baby sitting is a good part of the problem and can never supply any real solution.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

IMO, the stupid pieces of plastic and the "rules"/baby sitting is a good part of the problem and can never supply any real solution.

How then would a dive charter let's say out to the SS Wisconsin know who to take? Those dives are 130' to the bottom and the temps are typically low 40s at best. In your new order of things, how would they know who to allow to do those dives? Granted that today's world isn't perfect, but perfection also isn't possible nor probably desirable. But what is an honest to goodness alternative that would be LESS error prone than todays situation of having some deep certified diver with 13 logged dives doing those dives?

 

[rjchandler]

So... aside from all the forms and current equipment requirements/recommendations that are currently in place, what are the "real world" options for Mike at Gilboa to consider?

Should he only allow those with Recreational Helium certs (e.g. IANTD, GUE, NAUI) and above (e.g. Tech certs) to dive on the deep side?

Should someone have to have a certain quantity of dives at Gilboa to be eligible for the deep side?

Should a person need to be "guided" on their first Gilboa Deep dive(s) with someone that Mike W. trusts?

How does he make "the rubber meet the road" here without closing the place down?

I don't think he needs to do anything more than he already does.

You all assume that diving the deep side is a fancy technical dive. You don't have to go to the bottom. It is also a good place to practice those 60ft wall dives. The north wall is one of the nicer dives in the quarry.

 

[diver 85]

Personally I'd like to see the deep dock off limits to AOW students. I quit taking students off the deep dock a couple years ago because there are just too many things that can go wrong over there. Not to mention students who really aren't equiped for the dive. AOW requires below 60 feet. The tubes are a much better option for this in my opinon.

I'd also like to see redundant gear required for diving the deep side (however the gear does you no good unless you know how to use it)- pony, H-valve, or doubles.

Here is my post(#3 waaaay back when on this thread) & scubapolly is saying exactly what I was trying to say....

"This indeed is very sad.........IMO(& I've never been there), something needs to be looked into concerning this place, they are way over the stats.......Good luck to all diving this site......
__________________

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...tuesday071107/
http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...Cmonday070907/
http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...Cfriday071307/
http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...hursday071207/....."


I meant the WHOLE place(situation) needs an overhaul.....I don't care how anyone else cares or feels about the place.....'There's something not right in Baltimore...( & we ain't in Baltimore/ Curly of the 3 Stooges)'

 

[rjchandler]

I

Again, I think such equipment is a good idea but i hate to see it a "requirement". I much prefer to see divers who know what the risks are and have a plan to deal with them.

"

I might be hard on some of the agencies for their traiing standards and methods but I hate regulation and I really hate this whole c-card thing. If it were up to me, we would all count to three and on three cut up every single c-card that we have. Then watch property owners and charters try to figure out how to manage things and see how the agencies and dive shops market classes when no one needs a piece of plastic.

IMO, the stupid pieces of plastic and the "rules"/baby sitting is a good part of the problem and can never supply any real solution.

The c-card thing may be what keeps serious legal regulation away and that gives us all a ittle bit more personal freedom.

 

[wb416]

How then would a dive charter let's say out to the SS Wisconsin know who to take? Those dives are 130' to the bottom and the temps are typically low 40s at best. In your new order of things, how would they know who to allow to do those dives? Granted that today's world isn't perfect, but perfection also isn't possible nor probably desirable. But what is an honest to goodness alternative that would be LESS error prone than todays situation of having some deep certified diver with 13 logged dives doing those dives?

the way some used to do it in the past... show me your logbook, and discuss with me why you think you're qualified to do this dive.