Fundies kicked my a$$

[ScubaFeenD]

DIR copied the "Hogarthian" setup from William Hogarth Main (who was not, I believe, part of what became DIR).

If anyone here ever sees one of the original DIR videos (DIR 1 or 2) GI3 states many times that what makes up DIR is not anything particularly new, but it is a return to simplified gear and procedures that cave divers had been using long ago. There is stuff added and applied to more realms of diving, but the core is really really old.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If anyone here ever sees one of the original DIR videos (DIR 1 or 2) GI3 states many times that what makes up DIR is not anything particularly new, but it is a return to simplified gear and procedures that cave divers had been using long ago. There is stuff added and applied to more realms of diving, but the core is really really old.

Both of my Fundies instructors (Brandon Schwartz and Joe Talavera) made it clear that the DIR system was based on equipment configurations that had evolved before DIR came into being ... or as Joe so elequently put it ... "None of this stuff is new."

Folks who don't understand DIR tend to focus on the gear ... but the equipment is just the tools, the "craft" consists of how you use the tools to plan and execute your dive. And frankly, pretty much all of that is transferrable to pretty much any dive you choose it to be. There are even things about what I learned in that class that directly apply to how I solo dive ... despite the fact that solo diving is about as far from DIR as one can get and still be in the water ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

DIR is a holistic dive philosophy that claims that its practitioners are safer than non-DIR divers. Diving DIR is a dedicated venture and very few divers meet the specifications. Divers that approach DIR standards but don't follow through are merely applying Hogarthian tech configurations, usually where they aren't warranted. There's really very little application for DIR in recreational diving which is why I mock the concept. Tech diving is a different story. I do believe the DIR system is probably the safest for cave exploration, perhaps wrecks as well with certain caveats. For most open-water diving, however, DIR is major overkill.

this guy has it all figured out folks. move along. nothing to see here.

 

[Mossman]

And truth be told, I do believe there are certain elements to DIR diving that DO make me a safer diver. Practicing drills will make me better able to deal with an underwater emergency. Min gas vs safety stops seems to me to be a better way to off-gas, leading to lowered risk of getting bent. Propulsion techniques that don't silt up the bottom can lead to better visibility in silty areas. Consistent pre-dive checks mean I'm less likely to forget something important, or find something malfunctioning at depth. Clear, consistent underwater signaling means I can better communicate with my teammates. Can all these elements of increased safety be found in other ways, other dive "philosophies"? Maybe. Probably. But I got them from my GUE class. Why does that deserve to be mocked?

As for applying Hogarthian tech configurations where they aren't warranted - what's not warranted? When you are at my level (recreational) the aspects of it all work quite well together. What's wrong with using it? Does it cause problems? Is it too complex for recreational diving? If so, I'm not seeing that. The can light is probably the most "tech-diver-ish" aspect of it - but I just bought one for myself because I like the idea of it being attached to my hand, so I don't have to hold it...so I have both my hands free. And they sure are excellent lights! So what's the harm in using them for recreational diving?

There's no harm in wearing a racing suit and full harness to drive your car around residential streets, I suppose. But they're not warranted. I only wear my seatbelt most times because it's the law.

Recreational diving is safe enough. Heck, they certify ten-year-olds now. S-drills and a long hose won't make you any safer on an easy reef dive. If you do "technical" dives, take a tech course. Why bother with "intro to tech"?

But it's your money. Spend it how you wish. PADI Underwater Basketweaving, DIR Fundamentals, whatever. I'll still mock them both.

Now it's Cozumel time, we head to the airport in two hours. I wonder what will happen if I demand to dive on helium below 100' there? Would they mock me?

 

[ScubaFeenD]

There's no harm in wearing a racing suit and full harness to drive your car around residential streets, I suppose. But they're not warranted. I only wear my seatbelt most times because it's the law.

Recreational diving is safe enough. Heck, they certify ten-year-olds now. S-drills and a long hose won't make you any safer on an easy reef dive. If you do "technical" dives, take a tech course. Why bother with "intro to tech"?

But it's your money. Spend it how you wish. PADI Underwater Basketweaving, DIR Fundamentals, whatever. I'll still mock them both.

Now it's Cozumel time, we head to the airport in two hours. I wonder what will happen if I demand to dive on helium below 100' there? Would they mock me?

If this is really your viewpoint, Im just glad you arent diving anywhere around me. IJS.

 

[Cave Diver]

I think the thing that annoys people about DIR is the evangelical fervor of some of it's adherents.

I think the reason why DIR annoys most people is because people who don't truly understand it go around trying to explain it.

 

[TSandM]

There's no harm in wearing a racing suit and full harness to drive your car around residential streets, I suppose. But they're not warranted. I only wear my seatbelt most times because it's the law.

That last sentence explains a lot.

As an ER doc, I have seen many, many accidents where people died or were permanently damaged -- accidents that often were not the fault of the patient. Seat belts are something you are going to wear for many hours of your life, and may never need -- but when you DO need them, you are awfully glad they are there. Same with a seven foot hose (although one of my pleasures in that is how neatly it wraps around the diver, leaving no huge loops of hose sticking out). If you are risk-tolerant, or happily bathing in the blithe belief that "it won't happen to ME", then it seems like overkill. Some of us really like to hedge our bets.

 

[elmer fudd]

My DIR/GUE instructor was incredibly un-evangelical. He had his personal convictions but did not try to convert us.

But some end up converted anyway, witness the recent thread about using DIR gear for OW courses.

DIR copied the "Hogarthian" setup from William Hogarth Main (who was not, I believe, part of what became DIR).

But DIR was what popularized it. Sure, all that stuff had been around forever, but DIR was a philosophy that tied it all together and became popular. FWIW, Elvis never wrote any of his own music either, but he was what made songs like, "Jailhouse Rock" popular.

 

[Mossman]

That last sentence explains a lot.

As an ER doc, I have seen many, many accidents where people died or were permanently damaged -- accidents that often were not the fault of the patient. Seat belts are something you are going to wear for many hours of your life, and may never need -- but when you DO need them, you are awfully glad they are there. Same with a seven foot hose (although one of my pleasures in that is how neatly it wraps around the diver, leaving no huge loops of hose sticking out). If you are risk-tolerant, or happily bathing in the blithe belief that "it won't happen to ME", then it seems like overkill. Some of us really like to hedge our bets.

I do wear my seatbelt on the freeway, but I often don't on residential streets. You'll also never catch me riding a motorcycle. I'm not that stupid.

On the other hand, the 7' hose was developed for caves or wrecks where the divers have to go single file. The last thing I would want is a panicked OOA diver on the end of a 7' hose that's attached to me. On recreational dives, a standard octo hose is just fine because you want to have a hand on your OOA divers. The extra 5' of hose length is overkill, even if it feels as good wrapped around you as your shoulder belt feels when you're driving.

No, of course I haven't taken a Fundies class, to whoever asked that question. It wasn't about the money or getting there as the instructor offered to teach me for free and drive me to the class in his Jaguar, I just had better things to do with my time. I don't have to taste Limberger cheese to know I don't like it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There's no harm in wearing a racing suit and full harness to drive your car around residential streets, I suppose. But they're not warranted. I only wear my seatbelt most times because it's the law.

... OK ... that's your choice, and as long as you don't hurt anybody but yourself, you're entitled to make it. So do you also mock people who wear seatbelts because they feel that it keeps them safer?

... Bob (Grateful DIver)