How to pick a BP/W?

[Gombessa]

As far as just plan exhausted, not much of a priority. Limited use of a arm/hand a bit more for me. I sometimes get a nerve pinch (or at least that is what I think it is) that makes the use of a hand or arm painful for a bit. So I definitely wouldn't want that to cause an issue.

I think this falls into one of the points made earlier - if you somehow just don't find yourself able to get out a single harness as easily as you like (and ZKY's method above sounds interesting, I'll have to give it a shot), and that's a big priority for you, then stick with what you feel works best. But if you never try a single harness, you'll never know if it's as constricting as you think.

I'll have to find one of the Norcal guys with an extra single piece harness that'll let me try it out for a dive or two.

Mike, anytime we get to dive together, you're free to use my spare gear. I've got a steel plate/harness for singles that sees water maybe twice a year that you're welcome to try (though I'm a fairly skinny guy so the harness may not fit a lot of people).

 

[mikemill]

Yeah, I'm the total opposite of skinny

 

[Ben_ca]

LOL Funny Mike...

The simple harness is a breeze if it is properly adjusted. I've noticed that a lot of people have their straps too tight and do not know how to easily don/doff their gear. As far as rescue scenarios I did my rescue with my 3 other buddies all in doubles and simple harnesses and while it was definitely harder than just unclipping i wouldn't say it was impossible

Mike next time we dive together I'll toss you my spare BP&W and size it for you... Remember that dive at Ft Ross? I don't think Peter, Ryan and I were that slow getting in and out of our gear were we

 

[Gombessa]

Yeah, I'm the total opposite of skinny

I just checked, and my harness actually has quite a bit of slack in it, might work. Either way, the offer stands.

 

[mikemill]

I'll take you up on that in a few months. Need to do this drysuit thing first.

 

[DevonDiver]

You aren't teaching your students to handle the same gear when boat diving and they surface to find the weather has suddenly changed for the worse. A 2-3' chop with a boat and water moving violently sure does make dealing with gear on the surface and safely getting back on board a boat a much more difficult situation and one that is quite hazardous.

Aren't I?

Nice of you to make assumptions...

..oh, and thanks for contributing your depth of experience again. It's kinda pointing out the obvious, but that must seem profound advice at your level of experience.

Having taught courses under monsoon conditions in Thailand, I think a 2-3' chop would be quite an easy experience for my students....

Real life conditions are not completely emulated during OW training but experienced divers should be prepared for them.

Having taught diving courses across Asia and in the UK, then I would care to differ. I train divers to dive in the conditions they will face after the course ends.

Students generally perform the skills needed to get their certifications without complaining. They want to get it over and move on to the more enjoyable dives.

For a rescue diver, you sure have a lot of experience on how to run courses...

Being able to do a skill under normal conditions will get them a cert card but what about their performance under pressure in conditions that are more extreme?

Obviously, your training courses were deficient, if that is your experience...

Many dive shops won't allow instructors to teach in a BP&W they want the instructor in a mainstream jacket style BCD with integrated weight.

Really? After many years in the industry...and in a BP&W...that's news for me.

Exactly what is your 'sample size' when you state 'many'dive shops?

Sounds like verbal effluent to me...

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the 1 piece harness. What I am saying is more thought and discussion is needed before before eliminating harness styles with a release.

Put a few hundred more dives in your log book... and then we can discuss notes. I've put over 16 years of thought into developing my configuration. You?

Very few releases just break during a dive. If tanks are being dropped on them while on the surface then that is a problem with those handling the equipment. That isn't a failure of the device but negligence in caring for it. Those breakages should be found during equipment checks before becoming a mid dive hazard.

This remark shows an overwhelming ignorance of reality in the dive industry. Stuff gets broken regularly. Breakages should (of course) get discovered pre-dive, but that still means your kit is FUBAR for the dive. But, I suppose you think it is fine for people to be sitting on a boat for hours crying over a split plastic buckle...when all their friends are enjoying their dives?

 

[RAWalker]

Please Andy we can all read your trash between the lines.
and not of your board badges, your tech retoric of how the rest recreational dive community is all wrong or your friend cool hardware52 adding his thanks to your post is convincing anyone of anything but your own agenda which often doesn't fit the general concensous of the rest of the dive community. You may have a lot of knowledge to offer but it doesn't fit for many in the recreational dive community and just because someone is asking about a BP&W doesn't mean that a 1 piece harness (or any other tech gear for that matter) is the best fit for the diving they intend to do. Listen to the others on this thread. There are other users that are perfectly happy with their choices of a harness which has a release. We aren't all wrong. We are absolutely correct for our needs and those needs may often be more similar to other recreational divers than what you are suggesting.

As for your teaching in monsoon I sure hope you didn't take OW students out in those conditions. That would seem wreckless.

I think it's clear that instructors are not waiting for weather conditions to deteriorate so they can instruct in real life conditions so tell us all how you are emulating those conditions so we all understand what you are full of.

As a DMC (I'll be a DM in a few weeks) that as you put it is a card collector I've gained experience on how a course should be run from a number of sources. My experiences as a student, my instructors and my training. Seems you've forgotten some maybe a refresher would be a good idea for you.

Don't worry about my training I was taught enough to know that I'd need more experience in different conditions after my training. I also learned enough to choose better instructors.

I happen to know a very good tech instructor with over 20 years experience that I know disagrees with your POV about harnesses and back inflator BCD. Not that I've adopted my POV from him but happen to notice that my harness config was the same as his and had a nice discussion about it and found his insight helpful.

As for verbal effluent and FUBAR we are all painfully aware that any opinions that disagree with your fall into this catagory. So when we read your replies we absolutely give them the respect they deserve.:mooner:

 

[DevonDiver]

RAWalker... I don;t talk trash... but it is very hard for me to reply, without giving the perspective of my experience. I actually do like that you try and take an active part in these discussion, but you need to realize that your experience is very limited. As such, your views are very blinkered and the breadth of your understanding does not allow you to see past your current level of development.

The last thing you should realize, is that doing a course, does not provide the same insights as running a course. Teaching divers, does not equate to being taught to dive.

I think it's cute that you should not understand the difference...made me smile. thanks!
I am sorry if it hits a nerve, when I disagree with you, or that my posts highlight your considerable lack of experience in the water.... we were all in your position at one point in our diving development.

What I am trying to put acrtoss is simply that you haven;t yet done enough diving, no teaching, no dive guiding, no paid employment in the industry, no serious calibre diving... and therefore you view-points do not benefit from any personal depth of understanding.

What you feel now...your view now.... may seem very valid to you. I would ask you just to bear this in mind...and re-visit those views after you've gained some experience. You may be surprised to find that your views have changed considerably.

 

[DevonDiver]

As for your teaching in monsoon I sure hope you didn't take OW students out in those conditions. That would seem wreckless.

Seems you've forgotten some maybe a refresher would be a good idea for you.

Don't worry about my training I was taught enough to know that I'd need more experience in different conditions after my training. I also learned enough to choose better instructors.

So when we read your replies we absolutely give them the respect they deserve.

The more I read, the more I think you're just a troll.

 

[Kevin K]

I bought a tourus wing 26lbs, I think with a long ss backplate for my first rig. I really like it. I got the Hogarthian harness. It is so easy. While everyone else is strapping their straps, I just put my arms in-snatch the rig up on my back and bend over and tighten my waist belt. Don't use a crotch strap. The short inflator hose is different to get used to but so are most new things. The 26 lb wing floats me just fine. Doesn't float a steel 130 so good, but sufficient. Someone said keep it simple, The more I dive the less crap I take with me. I don't use a wgt belt. If I go with 5 ml suit for cold water, I add a 5lb wgt in a little bag I put on the tank belt. It's a really nice rig and so simple and comfortable. I use steel 120's. I have a bag tied to the back of the plate that holds a lift bag and If I need more wgt I put it in there, like when I used my buddy's aluminum 80's the other day, worked great. I bought one of those expensive, 100 dollar belt bag from one of those DIR companys, nice pouch, and I keep stuff in that, on my right side, like scissors, snorkel, finger reel. I could put more crap in it but why bring it? Just going diving, not walking on the moon. Tobin was very helpful and I am glad I bought his stuff. And of course the most important thing, I look and feel cool! My 2 cents. Kevin