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How would you handle this?

Discussion in 'Marine Life and Ecosystems' started by BCSGratefulDiver, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Deep Down Diver

    Deep Down Diver Angel Fish

    I read this entire thread. The post by Rooster above is the most intelligent analysis of the situation.

    The santimonious attitudes of many other posters on this thread is downright appalling.

    Those of you who think you are morally superior need to give it a rest, look in the mirror and be honest.

    Respectfully submitted
  2. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    A couple points of clarification, if I may ...

    Actually, virtually all of the improvements to this site have been created by private donations and the volunteer work of the recreational (non-hunting) divers who use this site regularly.

    ... and my tone didn't become confrontational until he said he was coming back tomorrow for another one ... if he did what he was legally entitled to do, within a week there would be no octopus left for the rest of us to see.

    There's plenty of regret to go around ... none of us involved in this incident expected it to turn into anything more than a local squabble over a shared resource.

    Not true ... this was not confirmed. It was claimed by the young hunter. He claims the WDFW inspector validated the claim, but all I can get from her recorded statements is that it might have been. By the time she saw the animal it had already been butchered. At that point, it's rather difficult to tell.

    As stated elsewhere, there's an easy way to tell ... if you want to know what it is, Google the term hectocotylus, and do some reading about the physical differences between male and female GPO's. This one was not a male.

    What he knew or didn't know is a matter of speculation. What is not speculation is that when he was informed of the inappropriateness of his actions, his response was "I don't care".

    The site I mentioned earlier has the same amenities this one does ... a parking lot and public restrooms for changing. What makes it different is that it's not a popular dive site ... and he would have had to spend a bit of time looking around for an octopus den, rather than going directly to one that everyone already knew was there.

    Until now, it has never occurred to anyone that a diver would even consider taking an octopus out of this site. In the 11 years I've been diving there, no one has ever been known to do it. Of the hundreds upon hundreds of people who have been trained at that site, I don't know a single one who would ever consider it. This is a classic case of what everyone complains about ... in the absense of being able to regulate our own behavior, due to the actions of one "I don't care" personality type, a new law becomes necessary to protect the rights of the many against the rights of the two.

    On this point we are in total agreement. Someone mentioned earlier that I've changed my position. Well, no ... I haven't. But now that I know that people reading this cannot behave within their own responsible boundaries, and have been harassing and threatening in a manner that is completely inappropriate, I won't continue to fan those flames. I've backed off to the point of not challenging some statements that I know to be untrue. I've publicly apologized to this family for the treatment they've received, which I did not do, but which
    I do feel some responsibility for. I've spoken to this kid's mother several times, and those have been good, productive conversations. We need to move forward, and "he said, she said" type exchanges won't move us in that direction. If I need to take a hit to my reputation and credibilty among Dylan's supporters, so be it ... I can survive that. But I won't countenance threats of violence. My goal is to protect, not injure ... humans as well as octopus.

    That applies both ways ...

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
    My $0.02.

    Respectfully submitted,

    PNW Dive Girl and hotsoup631 like this.
  3. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    I don't.

    Probably is, but Bob is entitled to take a shot at getting an extra serving of justice too.

    Do you think so?

    Your best post yet Ana (my opinion) and we never seem to get on that well. I like it that way, keeps us honest. -press on.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  4. bongabonga

    bongabonga DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Indonesia
    Hold on, people mentioned that this kid has license to hunt there... Did someone actually see that license?

    Anyway GD, I think you're doing the right thing.
    I only hope that this will come to happy ending.
  5. DaleC

    DaleC Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Leftcoast of Canada
    If someone has to explain to you, as a hunter, why, though it may be legal, one uses some discretion in regards to when and where one hunts - then I give up. It simply becomes an exercise in intellectual mental self flagellation. That isn't why I am participating here. My experience with forum debates is that they can devolve into endless minutia when the results do not matter to the people involved.

    Exactly. You don't know much about the subject, it means little to you in a real sense, you have no stake in what is going on. You just criticize others who do have a stake and who do live there and are attempting to deal with it. For you it is just a keyboard debate - for others it is happening IRL in their dive locale.

    The benefit of having no horse in the race is that one can be an armchair QB with perfect 20/20 hindsight. The problem with taking action is that sometimes it is messy and imperfect. People make mistakes, people get emotional, it requires risk. However, if I had to choose between being a person of action or a "perfect" bystander I still like to believe I would be the former. As a father of three children I am used to both intervening and being seen as the bad guy because of it. As to what I would do if that were my son - I'm not sure but after seeing his FB pages his "right" to hunt octo's would be the last of my concerns. I might start out there but I would also wonder why so many people, around the world, are getting so mad. I know when I saw the racial slurs, gun pointing and cruelty to animals I would stop focusing on the small octo problems I though I have.

    And once again, for the umpteenth time - neither Bob nor other responsible divers have urged violence of any kind against the young men involved. People say stupid stuff. When the newspaper ID's someone in relation to a story we don't hold them responsible for what others do with that information and I don't hold Bob accountable for stupid people by letting us know what was happening and who was involved in it. I thought letting the LDS's know and limiting their fills was good enough personally, and Bob himself stated multiple times at that point he was shifting focus from the individuals to working with officials to change the laws.

    I have read both threads completely, watched the news casts, listened to the radio interviews, read the newspaper accounts and looked at the FB screen shots. One may disagree with my opinion (which is fine) but at least mine are based on some effort to become informed.
  6. chrpai

    chrpai Great White

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cedar Park, TX
    So what? By that measure, Bob should have never posted this thread. He opened it up to the world asking how we'd handle it and with that we have the right to voice an opinion. If you don't like that, then go away and don't read it.

    ---------- Post Merged at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:52 PM ----------
    let's do a poll:

    Wildlife Proection around Non-Sanctuary Dive Sites
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2012
  7. chillyinCanada

    chillyinCanada Solo Diver Staff Member

    The original problem here is that John Quinones didn't show up.
    Zieg and Ana like this.
  8. dtdiver

    dtdiver Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: rochester ny
    "Gonna try to stop reading this thread now."

    you wont

  9. Mike

    Mike Great White

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Denver, Colorado
    No matter if you want to give kid the benefit of the doubt in regard to the legality of what he did, and his ignorance to the ethics and morals of what the dive community would expect, no matter what you have to discount all of that and focus on 1 thing which is anybody who's an ethical and moral hunter, any hunter should be mature enough to understand that hunting is about conservation, feeding yourself and protection of the species you are harvesting which means you should understand one thing no matter what ---


    That's just plain good common sense and respect for the species you are hunting. If you don't understand that, you have no business hunting anything, whether its in the water or out of the water. Even if you're just not that sharp, there should be something going off in your head that killing a mother on eggs is probably not a good idea, there should be something nagging in the back of your mind about this might not be a good idea.

    This kid doesn't realize that or doesn't respect it, that's what really matters here, if he just harvested a octopus that wasn't on eggs this would have way more grey area to it, but knowingly taking a mother on eggs and smugly acknowledging that he knowingly did it pretty much limits giving him any benefit of the doubt, his first step in becoming a good hunter is to learn this simple rule about mothers and babies. If you kill the mother, you're killing the babies. Whether we are talking about an octopus, a deer or anything else. You don't shoot a pregnant deer and you don't shoot a deer with a baby fawn standing next to it, you don't harvest an octopus guarding eggs.
    danvolker likes this.
  10. chrpai

    chrpai Great White

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cedar Park, TX
    What was that I was saying about if you say something enough times it'll become true?


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