I can't help but notice....

[boulderjohn]

We have to be careful when using the word "obese." Here is a picture of someone who is rated as Obese according to the BMI. He was somehow fit enough to be the most valuable player in the SuperBowl a couple of years ago despite being so horribly obese.

Yes, that is an extreme example, but there is a connection to this thread. The BMI starts with a near anorexic model as an ideal and then assumes that any additional weight MUST come courtesy of fat. All muscle is treated as if it were fat. You don't have to be a football player or a bodybuilder to have enough muscle to throw that scale off.

No one has ever mistaken me for a bodybuilder, but I have a fair amount of muscle, and I do work out to maintain the strength needed for all the work related to technical diving. A number of years ago, when I was in better shape than I am now, I had a hydrostatic body fat test done, and that is considered to be the most accurate measure of body composition. Although by the BMI I was well overweight, my body fat composition was pretty good. The analysis I got predicted what my body fat percentage would be if I lost weight solely through fat loss. According to that chart, if I got down to ZERO body fat, I would still be overweight according to the BMI.

Around that time, DAN's Alert Diver magazine published an article about the high percentage of dive fatalities in which the divers were overweight or obese, according to the BMI. I challenged that article on the basis of what I just wrote above, and they then did a follow up article in which they compared ways to determine fitness to dive. Their conclusion was that the BMI was the very worst way to measure personal fitness.

If we are going to talk about obesity for this discussion, I think we have to use the "I know it when I see it" defintion--someone with scade of fat and not a lot of accompanying muscular development.

 

[Stoo]

I'm talking about folks who can't see their feet without straining...

For many years I've had a "policy" about dive buddies.... If they're too large to get their own fins on, they're too large to be my buddy.

 

[2airishuman]

These days, there's a great movement to love our bodies, regardless of the shape. There's an entire industry that's reassuring people that "big is beautiful"... and it's great... but it's also BS to large extent.

Nobody ever took the first step on the road to personal change by deciding that they look ugly.

Obesity leads to all sorts of health problems... diabetes, heart disease, arthritis... It's the largest cause of health problems and for the most part, it's preventable.

It's extremely hard to unwind the root cause and also extremely difficult to address the causes of obesity when these confounding factors are present. e.g. arthritis is often aggravated enough by exercise that the ideal daily exercise regimen is simply not feasible. It is particularly difficult for diabetic people to lose weight; some authorities believe it is not feasible for most diabetics to reach their "ideal weight" and believe it is unwise for physicians to encourage that as a goal.

We have to be careful when using the word "obese." Here is a picture of someone who is rated as Obese according to the BMI. He was somehow fit enough to be the most valuable player in the SuperBowl a couple of years ago despite being so horribly obese.
...
If we are going to talk about obesity for this discussion, I think we have to use the "I know it when I see it" defintion--someone with scade of fat and not a lot of accompanying muscular development.

I agree. The BMI-based guidelines don't consider body shape or musculature and are not based on solid science.

 

[FinnMom]

The health risks of aging are obvious, but I think the stats show that it's still riskier to be well under under 50 and complacent than simply 50 or older. The accidents tell a lot more stories than "just over 45... death by heart attack" over & over again.

But for those well into and beyong middle age, taking care of yourself, being honest with yourself about your fitness level and diving under appropriate circumstances can all be listed under not being complacent.

 

[BRT]

No offense Chief, but that's a ****** attitude. If you kick it diving, that will have a lasting impact on those who try to save your ass. Plus, an obese, out of shape diver sucks as a buddy. They can't hold up their end of the deal that two buddies enter into... To save each other's asses.

With my buddy, it had become an unspoken issue between us. Mrs. Stoo often tended boat while he and I did a "DD&S" dive (deep, dark and scary). We often followed the same lake, same day buddy system. Mrs. Stoo was extremely concerned about how she could possibly deal with him if he surfaced in distress. No way she could have dragged him into the boat etc. Watching him die in front of her would have seriously messed her up and likely ended her diving.

So while obesity as a choice may be fine, but don't think for a second that it doesn't have an effect on others.

I should add that have a few decades of dive experience is a huge factor. My understanding is that the guy who died here last weekend was a relatively new diver. He should never have been in a dive class or been certified IMHO, but since he was an American, I assume that the shop where he trained was afraid of being sued had they prevented him from entering a class.

Simply nonsense. The best divers I have been with have been overweight. People I'd trust to save me above all others. Doesn't have anything to do with diving, or buddy ability.

 

[Stoo]

Simply nonsense. The best divers I have been with have been overweight. People I'd trust to save me above all others. Doesn't have anything to do with diving, or buddy ability.

I don't think I ever said that an obese diver couldn't be a good diver. In fact my main buddy of almost 40 years is significantly overweight and he's as cool as they come in the water. He's cave certified, does big trimix dives and has the common sense to call a dive if he feels conditions warrant it.

I also believe that he'd have a heart attack if if ever got caught in a serious current and had to swim against it. It almost happened 15 years ago and his weight and fitness level haven't improved since then.

So I agree with you (mostly) that obesity does not prevent someone from being a competent diver. I do disagree that an obese, out of shape buddy is a good choice if you are relying on them to save your bacon IN SOME SITUATIONS. (i.e. they can share air easily enough, but if they need to tow you for 100 yards thought a strong current, that's a whole other thing...)

In my definition of a "good" diver, I include many things beyond simply being competent. Maybe I'm fussy.

 

[DandyDon]

Simply nonsense. The best divers I have been with have been overweight. People I'd trust to save me above all others. Doesn't have anything to do with diving, or buddy ability.

This whole thread is a train wreck.

• 70 year olds have a shorter life expectancy than 30 year olds, generally.
• Morbidly obese folks often have related problems.
• Flooding is the biggest risk of hurricanes.
• Crack use leads to health problems.
• Lighting hitting you is generally bad.
• Car wrecks kill thousands yearly.
• Sometime people die on trips.

I need to go talk to my hometown funeral director about preneed plans.

 

[Stoo]

I need to go talk to my hometown funeral director about preneed plans.

I used to think that, but in reality, they'll likely not find my body so what's the point.

I agree about the thread though... I'm gonna be quiet now since we're going around in circles.

 

[DandyDon]

I need to go talk to my hometown funeral director about preneed plans.

Nah, that was a crack.

I used to think that, but in reality, they'll likely not find my body so what's the point.

If they did, the funeral industry is notorious about sticking it the survivors. I have printed out my preferences for my daughter...

1. If I am lost diving, I don't want anyone taking risks trying to locate my carcass. If I am unable to set off my PLB, it'll be too late anyway. Just apologize for those whose trips I ruined.
2. If I die outside of the US and they do find me, DAN will pay for my return - and have a second autopsy done on arrival as I don't trust governments in dive destinations to be honest.
3. Get bids on the cheapest direct cremation possible (funeral directors would rather cost at least 5 times as much), have the cremains FedExed when done, and talk to my hometown cemetery association about requirements to bury those there. They can have a local employee dig the 15" deep hole economically if needed, but get updated instructions. I'd prefer a 60# motor mix marked like I made for a number of unmarked graves here, but I'd need to teach someone how - so I think it'd be easier to make one each fall for the following year in case that's the one. Unused slabs can be turned over for other uses.

 

[Stoo]

Haha... I was thinking a dive flag and float made out of marble would be a good gravestone...