• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Ice Divers: Potential 'Advanced Ice Diver' specialty course

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by lowviz, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. chrisch

    chrisch Solo Diver

    989
    296
    63
    I agree with you 100% That is why I think more line work could be a foundation point for an advanced ice diver course. Such a course would teach people about the use of line, the pros and cons of fixed tethers and the suitability of teams and solo options for the diver. Some real learning to build on the experience dives that are the current offering from most agencies.

    Entanglement drills could be carried out in a quarry or other "safe" environment that has a free surface. Neutral buoyancy skills and dealing with a free flow and going to the redundant backup gas all possible without ice.

    Whether you can get everyone to agree on it and whether anyone would buy the training is another matter.
     
  2. abnfrog

    abnfrog Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: great white north
    946
    462
    63
    whats interesting here is some of the so called experts are claiming we are doing it wrong ,,,(wondering how many ice dives they ,,,never mind how many courses they have taught ) post a link of the "guys who do it right " they have a pic of 2 not so great regs on a y valve ... NO REDUNDENCY SYSTEM in a first stage freeze up .....oh yeah that can NEVER happen as they de tuned it . so lets say you are 200 feet from the hole (after all you can see 400 plus feet and viz is the reason not to be tethered ) after being in the water for 20 mins , now you have a first stage freeflow .your 1/2 to 1/3 full SINGLE (yeah they are the experts alright )..tank empties FAST ..swim back fast as you are not tethered in so no help from above .......ill stay teaching my way thx ...im done with this argument .......there are people on this board that have done my course can make their own minds up . they had me till I saw the reg set up and choice of regs plus no bc ..no gas no lift over weighted .....im going to use this link to teach NOT what to do and have my students TELL my why its dangerous
     
  3. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    6,008
    2,573
    113
    My mind is made up. Abnfrog's Basic Ice course was excellent.

    Everyone was on-site so there was time to answer every question and concern. The lecture portion was detailed and he asked questions to see if all the bobbing heads actually assimilated what he was teaching. He is a military person and the obvious intent was for all of us to be able to set-up, run, and break-down the surface support along with doing the dives. This isn't your standard scuba course. You embrace it and live it for the duration. Given the benefit of few to no time constraints, it seemed extremely easy and natural. There was a huge camaraderie, the DM's were a treat.

    You don't walk into his course expecting everything to be set up so that you can pay your nickel and join the precious few people on this planet who have been under thick ice. I have no doubt that I could run a safe under-ice basic dive op with what I now know.

    As far as what abnfrog teaches in advanced, I have no idea. But I do expect that it would be organized, meaningful, and well worth the cost. Should he offer such a course, I want a seat.
     
  4. Erich S

    Erich S Nassau Grouper

    175
    76
    28
    I have seen a PADI "Advanced Ice Diver" card but it doesn't show up as a course that they offer. I wonder what their course consists of?
     
  5. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    6,008
    2,573
    113
    It could be a specialty course, the instructor submits his/her requirements to the agency and they approve/disapprove permission for that instructor to teach it as a specialty.

    Won't show up on the core courses.
     
  6. Marie13

    Marie13 Great White

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Great Lakes
    3,394
    2,067
    113
    Never mind
     
  7. chrisch

    chrisch Solo Diver

    989
    296
    63
    I think it is worthwhile, before this thread breaks down into a silly argument, to look at freeflows in the context of very cold water. Modern regulators do not often freeflow in my experience and those that do often it is due to poor service and adjustment. Part of any basic ice diving introduction and instruction should be talking about and understanding the problems of cold water. Not breathing the reg at the surface for example.

    In terms of advancing this knowledge and understanding it is important to look at freeflows and their consequences if one is deeper than a couple of metres (directly under the ice looking at it) and not on a rope to the surface hole a few meters away.

    Again it seems to me there is ample opportunity for instruction about the state of tune of regulators, especially high performance regulators. More understanding about thermoclines and how water density affects the temperature in the water column. Practical instruction in how to cope with the freeflow (like valve drills on doubles for example) and stressing the importance of a fully redundant gas source (and suitability of it's regulator arrangements)

    The "new generation" of very cold water regulators are supposed to deal with this kind of environment. Most of us (me included) do not dive in waters below 6-7C routinely even in cave diving. (I have dived 4C a few times but I think some ice dives might be below this even at depth) Some understanding of how regulator design mitigates risk at these temperatures would be interesting to students I am sure.

    I can see how this could build into a worthwhile "advanced ice" course. I'd like a cert card like that to overcome the dope on a rope requirement. Where do I sign up?
     

Share This Page