If Not Here, Then Where? Basic vs Advanced

[Jax]

If not the Advanced Forum, where shall the advanced-curious divers go to make inquiries and get serious answers from those that have been-there, done-that?

Background
Recently, I copied the "Special Forum Rules / Terms of Service" from Uncle Ricky's sticky post about the Advanced Forum's ToS into several threads that, IMO, were basic threads and did not belong in the Advanced Forum. I also asked that the threads be moved into the Basic Forum. What I posted:

[post=3765586]*Please Read* Special Forum Rules / Terms of Service[/post]

Advanced Scuba Discussions - A forum dedicated to discussing the transitional process of migrating from the traditional recreational divng envelope into more advanced areas such as advanced nitrox and trimix diving, decompression diving, cave diving and wreck penetration diving, blackwater diving, etc. This forum isn't a place to discuss technical diving per se - that's what our technical diving forums are for - but rather to discuss those baby steps to becoming a true advanced diver who's ready to step into tech.

Rick

The result was that my post of the above was reported as spam; secondly, the powers-that-be don't see an issue with the placement [of the threads currently in the Advanced Forum].


If topics like

• Why do we hate the Air2?

• Boat crew setting kit up

• "The issue" emptying your BC

• Is a 1/2 full tank safe in a hot car?

• Does having 'Rescue Diver' certification make you potentially more liable...

are not Basic Forum fodder, then what is?

Uncle Ricky did a great description of the line of demarcation

This forum isn't a place to discuss technical diving per se - that's what our technical diving forums are for - but rather to discuss those baby steps to becoming a true advanced diver who's ready to step into tech

. . . What has changed?

I see this as an issue because there are posters on this board that don't like to go in the Basic Forum and the New Divers and Those Considering Diving Forum. There are a lot off people that are not only new to diving, but also new to forums, some people find it tiresome to see the same tired questions asked over and over. When questions that are Basic (Nitrox, Rescue, specialty classes, long hose, BP/W, Spare Air, Air2,etc) get asked in the Advanced Forum, will this not also "turn off" the various audience the "baby-stepping" advanced divers want to reach?

If indeed the current placement of the threads I listed as an example are "okay", it seems one would be forced go to the individual boards (The Deco Stop, The Cave Divers' Forum) to get to the serious answerers . . . which doesn't make sense when that is what Advanced is supposed to be for . . .

In a previous thread, I asked, "When does diving turn Tech?", and NWGratefulDiver gave a wonderful answer - when you incur an overhead, virtual or otherwise.

So now, when do you turn "advanced"? I suggest that once you are past Nitrox, Rescue, Solo, and other specialties, have a path ahead into technical diving training, and are diving with more than one tank (neither of which is a Spare Air), you've moved into Advanced.

What say you?

 

[Cave Diver]

I was in the process of answering your PM when you posted this, so I'll just post my response here:

If not the Advanced Forum, where shall the advanced-curious divers go to make inquiries and get serious answers from those that have been-there, done-that?

Background
Recently, I copied the "Special Forum Rules / Terms of Service" from Uncle Ricky's sticky post about the Advanced Forum's ToS into several threads that, IMO, were basic threads and did not belong in the Advanced Forum. I also asked that the threads be moved into the Basic Forum. What I posted:

[post=3765586]*Please Read* Special Forum Rules / Terms of Service[/post]

The result was that my post of the above was reported as spam; secondly, the powers-that-be don't see an issue with the placement [of the threads currently in the Advanced Forum].


1. If topics like

• Why do we hate the Air2?

• Boat crew setting kit up

• "The issue" emptying your BC

• Is a 1/2 full tank safe in a hot car?

• Does having 'Rescue Diver' certification make you potentially more liable...

are not Basic Forum fodder, then what is?

2. Uncle Ricky did a great description of the line of demarcation
. . . What has changed?

I see this as an issue because there are posters on this board that don't like to go in the Basic Forum and the New Divers and Those Considering Diving Forum. There are a lot off people that are not only new to diving, but also new to forums, some people find it tiresome to see the same tired questions asked over and over. When questions that are Basic (Nitrox, Rescue, specialty classes, long hose, BP/W, Spare Air, Air2,etc) get asked in the Advanced Forum, will this not also "turn off" the various audience the "baby-stepping" advanced divers want to reach?

3. If indeed the current placement of the threads I listed as an example are "okay", it seems one would be forced go to the individual boards (The Deco Stop, The Cave Divers' Forum) to get to the serious answerers . . . which doesn't make sense when that is what Advanced is supposed to be for . . .

In a previous thread, I asked, "When does diving turn Tech?", and NWGratefulDiver gave a wonderful answer - when you incur an overhead, virtual or otherwise.

So now, when do you turn "advanced"? I suggest that once you are past Nitrox, Rescue, Solo, and other specialties, have a path ahead into technical diving training, and are diving with more than one tank (neither of which is a Spare Air), you've moved into Advanced.

What say you?

1. The definition of "basic" is subjective. In at least two of the threads you referenced, the OP specifically indicated looking for more knowledgeable response. Who would you think they would rather get feedback on boat crews from? Advanced divers who have a lot of experience, or people in the New or Basic forum who might not have done any boat dives yet? Below is a previous quote from Pete that may help you understand things better.

In concept (and spirit) the difference should be very slight when it comes to the nature of permitted responses. A few people see the extra civility afforded the green areas as an undue restriction on their vitriol. They also often see any area that is "non green" as a license to be as harsh as they want to be.

Missing from this reality is "mutual respect". Our forum is built upon it and requires it: it's a part of our ToS. It is not suspended in the non green zones.

"Basic" and "Advanced" reflect the industry norm as to content. Obviously, there will always be some overlap between the two, and that's OK. We try to leave it up to the OP to determine where it should go.

2. Nothing has changed - Like the description says "The baby steps to becoming"

3. Those are technical diving boards, so I'm not sure what your relevance is to a basic/advance discussion.

 

[300bar]

What say me


Go diving, get past 1000 dives and come back

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@Jax: I don't think this thread belongs in the "Advanced Scuba" forum. Instead, it should be moved to "Whine and Cheese."

Personally, I think that topics appropriate for the "Basic Scuba" forum are ones that clarify a concept normally taught (or could be taught) in basic OW training. The dividing line between "Basic" and "Advanced" is a fairly substantial gray area. I'd probably have to agree that some, if not all, of the topics you listed above belong in "Basic." That being said, I think the mods rely to a certain extent on thread-starters placing the thread in the appropriate forum. If the placement is obviously wrong or the thread is lacking good responses and would garner more attention in a different forum, then it makes sense for the mod to move the thread there.

 

[Jax]

@Jax: I don't think this thread belongs in the "Advanced Scuba" forum. Instead, it should be moved to "Whine and Cheese."

Personally, I think that topics appropriate for the "Basic Scuba" forum are ones that clarify a concept normally taught (or could be taught) in basic OW training. The dividing line between "Basic" and "Advanced" is a fairly substantial gray area. I'd probably have to agree that some, if not all, of the topics you listed above belong in "Basic." That being said, I think the mods rely to a certain extent on thread-starters placing the thread in the appropriate forum. If the placement is obviously wrong or the thread is lacking good responses and would garner more attention in a different forum, then it makes sense for the mod to move the thread there.

Are you saying, then, that anything AOW and beyond should be in the Advanced?

And if this belongs in Whine and Cheese, I am confident it will find its way there . . . .

 

[Cave Diver]

And if this belongs in Whine and Cheese, I am confident it will find its way there . . . .

It's been moved to Feedback.

 

[redacted]

Since we have lost the forum filter in our "New Posts" search, I'm not sure there is any need to separate those 2 forums anyway.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

@Jax: I don't think this thread belongs in the "Advanced Scuba" forum. Instead, it should be moved to "Whine and Cheese."

Personally, I think that topics appropriate for the "Basic Scuba" forum are ones that clarify a concept normally taught (or could be taught) in basic OW training. The dividing line between "Basic" and "Advanced" is a fairly substantial gray area. I'd probably have to agree that some, if not all, of the topics you listed above belong in "Basic." That being said, I think the mods rely to a certain extent on thread-starters placing the thread in the appropriate forum. If the placement is obviously wrong or the thread is lacking good responses and would garner more attention in a different forum, then it makes sense for the mod to move the thread there.

Somehow I don't see talking about boat crew setting up your equipment for you as an advanced scuba technique ... you're supposed to learn how to set up your own gear as part of your OW class.

On the other hand, I don't see talking about which forum topics belong in as a good, productive use of time either. Some folks are just not as good at housekeeping as others ... ain't no big whoop. Topics end up in places that make me go all the time ...

.,.. Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[300bar]

Since we have lost the forum filter in our "New Posts" search, I'm don't sure there is any need to separate those 2 forums anyway.

I know English is not my 1st language.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Are you saying, then, that anything AOW and beyond should be in the Advanced?

Sure. Why not?

In some recent threads in the "Basic" forum, I've read a number of posts by advanced/experienced divers who have given somewhat advanced/technical responses to the OP's query. Not sure whether they really thought their responses were what the OP was looking for or if they were just looking to "flex" (e.g., "show off") a little. For example, check out this recent thread about the reasoning behind not re-descending to conduct a missed safety stop on a recreational dive profile. For whatever reason, several individuals thought it appropriate to begin discussing the oxygen window, 80/20 gas mixes, and breathing 100% O2 as a deco gas. Poor judgment IMO. Raising those concepts obfuscates the simple approach that a beginner diver should be focusing on if faced with the given scenario. In fact, I could see how a novice following the advice of some of those thread participants could actually get hurt.