Ignorant DIR Question

[MSilvia]

Brass is made from copper and zinc and corrodes readily in salt water. The spring are generally the 1st thing to fail and it doesn't take long - couple months. Stainless clips last many years.

In my experience, brass is one of the metal least affected by salt water. As brass artifacts are often one of the few things remaining on the oldest and most deteriorated marine wreckage, I have to disagree strongly with that one. Further, since the springs in quality brass clips are most often stainless steel, I don't think the "failure in a couple of months" thing is right either. Before switching to all stainless (and I'll get to why in a sec) my brass clips worked wonderfully for several years. I'll grant that having the SS spring in a brass clip might cause a reaction that COULD weaken the spring, but I haven't ever had a good one fail.

The reason I switched to SS clips is that brass is soft metal, and repeated use of the thumb pull on them will cause the edges of the groove it slides in to become, as we say in New England, "wicked sharp". I'd heard that in my DIR-F, but pooh-pooed the concern until an old clip of mine sliced up the thumb on an old pair of neoprene gloves. I shrugged it off again and sanded down the sharp bits with crocus cloth, and that worked fine.

When I started using dry gloves though, I was no longer willing to risk my clips letting water into my suit, so I switched to stainless.

I did like Scubarev's analogy - a DIR diver would not likely even question the difference on such a minor point. Someone has thought this through, GUE has mandated it, why spend the effort to figure it out again. Me I don't trust any forms of authority (character flaw - costs me occasionaly) I want to know the reason, if its a good one then I will buy in, otherwise I will go my own way at my peril

Questioning reasons leads to understanding them, and understanding is what lets a diver make good decisions. Though I'm certainly no expert, not questioning methods doesn't sound very DIR to me. Understanding why you dive the way you dive is important. IMHO, changing your diving style because someone told you that you should is stupid if you don't understand and agree with the reasons for it.

 

[Hank49]

We need to stop pissing off recreational divers just to prove that we're more hardcore DIR than anyone else.

Wow Lamont....is there a colored wetsuit in your trunk now and a PADI Divemaster sticker on your car window?

 

[limeyx]

As a point of interest, perhaps, the newly-reformatted DIR-F classes now include Nitrox certification.

I was going to take MHK's class on the 14th, and I sat in the first night's lecture and learned this tidbit. I was not able to finish due to wife needing surgery that weekend, so I've rescheduled for the next class, in February.

But I did learn that tidbit. Due to the "air is for tires" philosophy, Nitrox training now comes with DIR-F, so this situation won't be happening in the future.

Should be interesting to see how MHK teaches me Nitrox differently from TDI.

I'm a big fan of the "DIR" approach to nitrox (and beyond). We took our nitrox class (PADI) from a DIR diver.

essentially we went over all the PADI stuff, mostly so we could complete the questions, but also so we knew all the math for PPO2, MOD etc.

Then you essentially throw it all away and it boils down to 2 really easy equations (for CNS and OTU approximation calculations) and a couple of rules (100 ft MOD, 20% EAD etc.) Really (really) easy.

The best thing about the nitrox "rules" given at the DIR-F level (as with pretty much everything DIR) is that they are just a simplification of a more general rule that works for higher levels of diving.

So the CNS calcs for a tech dive are just a small modification to that used for a recreational dive. Easy.

In fact, all of the DIR equations, Bottom time calcs, essentially everything you need to know (at least for non-cave diving) can fit on 2 pages of wetnotes (an no, not in 6 point text this gets you up to tech2/3 levels.

 

[rjack321]

The brass artifacts you find aren't really brass anymore. The zinc leaches out and your left with a pinkish metal. Its a porous copper and very weak.

"Marine Brass" is typically bronze, an alloy of copper and tin. Much more durable in the marine environment since the tin is not subject to quite as much electrolytic action. It can still leach out, leaving copper, but not so fast.

Stainless clips almost always have stainless springs, bronze clips can go either way. Brass often have some mystery metal spring.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Questioning reasons leads to understanding them, and understanding is what lets a diver make good decisions. Though I'm certainly no expert, not questioning methods doesn't sound very DIR to me. Understanding why you dive the way you dive is important. IMHO, changing your diving style because someone told you that you should is stupid if you don't understand and agree with the reasons for it.

I don't in principle disagree. In practice what I see (sometimes even in myself) is an unwillingness to even try a new way if the benefits aren't obvious beforehand. This is true in many areas, cooking, machining, sports, diet, you name it. I think it's part of human nature, the familar is just more comfortable.

Unfortunately often the benefits of the "new way" only become apparent after one adopts them (or atleast offers an honest effort) Some things can't adequately be explained or argued, ya just gotta go do it a while.

That requires a leap of faith. That's the challenge I see some "potential" DIR divers struggle with.


Tobin

 

[Thalassamania]

That's the challenge I see some "potential" DIR divers struggle with.

That's the challenge I see some GUE Instructors struggle with. Not all by any means but some of the more rigid.

 

[cool_hardware52]

That's the challenge I see some GUE Instructors struggle with. Not all by any means but some of the more rigid.

Sorry, I don't follow. Why would the instructor struggle?


Tobin

 

[MSilvia]

In practice what I see (sometimes even in myself) is an unwillingness to even try a new way if the benefits aren't obvious beforehand. This is true in many areas, cooking, machining, sports, diet, you name it. I think it's part of human nature, the familar is just more comfortable.

I'd go along with that. I feel the same way... if I don't know why I'd want to do something, I'm not likely to do it.

Unfortunately often the benefits of the "new way" only become apparent after one adopts them (or atleast offers an honest effort) Some things can't adequately be explained or argued, ya just gotta go do it a while.

That requires a leap of faith. That's the challenge I see some "potential" DIR divers struggle with.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Could you give me an example of something I might really like if I make an honest effort, but the benefits of which cannot be explained and require a leap of faith?

Anything I can think of that I believe is worth trying or doing, I believe is worth trying or doing for some reason that I can articulate. I'm struggling to come up with an exception, whether diving related or not.

 

[roakey]

Due to the "air is for tires" philosophy...

Mike's not a NASCAR fan, is he?

Roak

 

[cool_hardware52]

I'd go along with that. I feel the same way... if I don't know why I'd want to do something, I'm not likely to do it.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Could you give me an example of something I might really like if I make an honest effort, but the benefits of which cannot be explained and require a leap of faith?

Anything I can think of that I believe is worth trying or doing, I believe is worth trying or doing for some reason that I can articulate. I'm struggling to come up with an exception, whether diving related or not.

Matt,

None of what I said was intended as a criticism of your point, just an expansion of the thought. Maybe it's my stubborn nature.

To take an isolated point, corrigated hose lenght for example.

Tell me a short hose is a good thing, tell me why even, and I'll have my doubts, as a longer hose has always performed fine.

Put me on a scooter with a longer corrigated hose and as it beats me in the head the previous explainations snap into focus.

A more general example would be pairing up with a unfamilar diver. Try to explain to a non DIR diver the realtive calm and confidence one has when first diving with a DIR you don't know. It just doesn't make complete sense until you have the training.


Tobin