In the market for a BP+W. What should I know? And what products best fill my needs/preferences?

[Papasmurf89]

So my old SeaQuest back inflate finally bit the dust and I need to pick up a new rig. Decided on jumping on the BP+W train but am a bit overwhelmed with all of the options. I've had some people say that they're all the same and just go for the cheapest while I've heard other people wholeheartedly recommend some products over others. Curious what you guys think. I did have a few questions about the set up in general as well as a few things that I'd definitely like my rig to have that might narrow my choices down.

Questions:

1) Is a crotch strap really necessary?

2) Are padded straps worth it?

3) Anything that I should know about BP+W setups before I buy that may not be obvious?

Preferences:

• Would really like a dump valve on my shoulder. Previous BC had a dump valve on the bottom of the bladder and I always thought it was horribly inconvenient.
• Would like my BP+W to be able to carry 18 pounds (the BP can be included in this). I usually dive steel but when I dive aluminum I have 12 pounds in my pouches and 6 pounds in my trim pockets. I dive thick (10 mm farmer John) so I also have a DUI harness but I like to be able to at least split some of the weight between the two. Doesn't necessarily have to be a full 18 pounds on the BC (I can add more to my harness) but at least 10 pounds on there would be nice. Assuming this shouldn't be a problem since a lot of plates seem to be 6+ pounds.
• Don't want a huge wing. All I ever dive is single steel 80's/100's and single aluminum 80's so I don't need a ton of lift. I feel that a large wing would just get in the way.
• Like the option of D-rings around my waist. Know that BP+W's are pretty customizable so don't think this will be a problem but I often have to carry a lot of stuff (e.g., slates, transect tapes, etc.) and like the option of being able to clip it off on my waist with a carabiner. Would like the D-rings to be close to my center (rather than on the sides) on my waist.

With all that said...anyone have any brands/products that they would recommend I check out? Currently have no preference but have been looking at Dive Rite, DGX, and Deep Sea Supply. Maybe Halcyon? Budget is probably around $400-500 but I can bump it up if you think it's worth it. Cheaper would be better though. If I can get a quality $300 setup with everything I want that'd be great.

 

[Zef]

I was just in your shoes as my old Triple L BC bit the dust (corregated hose flange separated from BC material on bladderless BC).

I am waiting for my the Dive Rite Voyager XT wing, back plate, and harness to arrive from Dive Gear Express.

I spent an ungodly amount of time reading various posts on SB and other sites, and spent some time on the phone with the folks at DGX.

The price of the Dive Rite standard SS back plate, XT wing, harness, and 2-inch crotch strap,was about $480ish...I added the QB weight pocket system for a bit extra.

I think my biggest takeaway from all the research that I had done is that many of the folks who started with padded harnesses like the transplate and such eventually replaced them with a standard hogarthian harness and expressed that they were happy. This is what led me to go with the standard harness setup as I was initially looking at the Dive Rite transplate setup.

DGX has a good deal on their own brand setup at $299...I would have gone this route but there wing is only 25lbs of life and I was not sure if it would be enough lift for me here in the frigid waters of Belgium and Netherlands while wearing a couple of layers of 5.5mm neoprene.

Keith and Geoffrey at DGX were very generous with their time and information, I would recommend you give them a shout.


-Z

 

[Asheron]

1) If your just recreational diving with singles don't run it if you don't like it. Your last BC probably worked fine without it also.

2) Big padded covers are a PITA (scubapro shoulder pads), but neoprene covers like dive rite work great for protecting your suit from the webbing if it is stiff.

3) Wing shape is a personal preference. I like Donut shaped wings because of how they trim out. Also a Rigid D ring on the left hip is really had since it doesn't fold over after unclpiping your SPG/Stage.

Lift - If you are just diving a wetsuit a 20lb wing should work, but a 30 would also be nice........If you plan on going to a drysuit, my 30lb wing barely floats me if my drysuit were to catastrophically fail, so I would go with a 40lb wing.

Backplate material- since you are wearing so much lead, get a steel backplate

Deep sea supply has awesome packages and I love their bolt on weights.

Xdeep also has the NX backplate which I will probably buy for my next setup due to better ergonomics, but I believe you have to use their wing.

 

[rongoodman]

The crotch strap is what holds it all together. Without it, you'll end up wanting the shoulder straps tighter than they otherwise need to be. Padding on them is unnecessary. It's unclear what you mean by a dump valve on your shoulder. They all allow you to dump from the inflation valve, but unless you're on the surface it won't do you any good. The OPV on the bottom of the wing is the one that works when you're under water in trim. 30# is probably a good compromise, although with that thick of a wet suit you might want a little more. You definitely sound like a candidate for SS plate, and maybe a weighted STA too. I have always used Halcyon, but other brands work too. DSS is very popular around here.

 

[halocline]

Questions:

1) Is a crotch strap really necessary?

2) Are padded straps worth it?

3) Anything that I should know about BP+W setups before I buy that may not be obvious?

1) Yes
2) No
3) Less is more.

 

[cool_hardware52]

So my old SeaQuest back inflate finally bit the dust and I need to pick up a new rig. Decided on jumping on the BP+W train but am a bit overwhelmed with all of the options. I've had some people say that they're all the same and just go for the cheapest while I've heard other people wholeheartedly recommend some products over others. Curious what you guys think. I did have a few questions about the set up in general as well as a few things that I'd definitely like my rig to have that might narrow my choices down.

Questions:

1) Is a crotch strap really necessary?

2) Are padded straps worth it?

3) Anything that I should know about BP+W setups before I buy that may not be obvious?

Preferences:

• Would really like a dump valve on my shoulder. Previous BC had a dump valve on the bottom of the bladder and I always thought it was horribly inconvenient.
• Would like my BP+W to be able to carry 18 pounds (the BP can be included in this). I usually dive steel but when I dive aluminum I have 12 pounds in my pouches and 6 pounds in my trim pockets. I dive thick (10 mm farmer John) so I also have a DUI harness but I like to be able to at least split some of the weight between the two. Doesn't necessarily have to be a full 18 pounds on the BC (I can add more to my harness) but at least 10 pounds on there would be nice. Assuming this shouldn't be a problem since a lot of plates seem to be 6+ pounds.
• Don't want a huge wing. All I ever dive is single steel 80's/100's and single aluminum 80's so I don't need a ton of lift. I feel that a large wing would just get in the way.
• Like the option of D-rings around my waist. Know that BP+W's are pretty customizable so don't think this will be a problem but I often have to carry a lot of stuff (e.g., slates, transect tapes, etc.) and like the option of being able to clip it off on my waist with a carabiner. Would like the D-rings to be close to my center (rather than on the sides) on my waist.

With all that said...anyone have any brands/products that they would recommend I check out? Currently have no preference but have been looking at Dive Rite, DGX, and Deep Sea Supply. Maybe Halcyon? Budget is probably around $400-500 but I can bump it up if you think it's worth it. Cheaper would be better though. If I can get a quality $300 setup with everything I want that'd be great.

I'd strongly suggest you start with a basic kit *before* you decide you don't need a crotch strap, want pads and need to festoon your harness with drings and multiple dumps. You can do all those things later, but you probably won't want to.

Wing capacity is worth understanding. It's quantifiable based on your application. It's not a "style" choice.

Bottom line is try to resist turning your BP&W back into the Jacket BC you are hoping to replace.

Tobin

 

[tbone1004]

1. yes
2. no
3. you'll get the best advice from the guy that posted right above me. Tobin is the owner and designer for Deep Sea Supply, a brand very well loved on this forum for damned good reason. I would recommend contacting him and picking his brain, then ultimately purchasing from him. Top quality, made in USA, reasonably priced, can't beat that

 

[Colliam7]

1) Is a crotch strap really necessary?

I would agree that the best response is a 'Yes', but with an asterisk. A crotch strap is not technically NECESSARY, i.e. that you MUST have one to dive a BP. But, it is an integral part of what makes a BP such an tremendously appealing and functional rig, so it seems pointless to com promise the rig by not using one. My first BCD was a Zeagle Ranger, and I very quickly added the optional crotch strap, since that notably increased the stability of the rig. I moved to BPs and love the crotch strap. I even subsequently added a crotch strap (did some sewing) to my 'pool' BCD - an AquaLung Wave (jacket). A crotch strap improves the in-water stability of any rig! If you are concerned about the potential annoyance of a stiff piece of 2" webbing, don't be. You can use soft 2" webbing, you can use a 1" crotch strap, you can put a short section of neoprene sleeve around a stiffer 2" strap, etc. Crotch straps are an important, and very desirable component, and there are options available.

Are padded straps worth it?

Like other respondents my general answer is 'No'. In the water you hardly notice the rig. The shoulder straps are not at all uncomfortable. Padding is completely unnecessary and adds to the weight (lead) you have to carry. Now, the one circumstance that a few SB users seem to cite as a reason for adding padding on the shoulder straps is a situation where you have to wear your rig for some extended period of time, to walk from a parking area to the water entry at a dive site. I have personally never found such a need. And, I have walked my BP rig up and down the entry steps to the Thousand Steps site on Bonaire (OK, not really 1000 steps, but, quite a few, and steep), I have walked the rig across 100+yards of brush to get to water's edge at sites, etc. I wouldn't consider padding when you first get a rig. If, for some reason, you subsequently decide you want some, add it later. The chances are you won't give padding a second thought.

Would really like a dump valve on my shoulder. Previous BC had a dump valve on the bottom of the bladder and I always thought it was horribly inconvenient.

Divers who work to achieve good horizontal trim sing the praises of the 'butt dump'. It is so easy to tweak the amount of air in the BCD with a butt dump. BP wings will have the ability to vent air from the shoulder, through the corrugated inflator hose (but not with a wire in the hose that allows you to yank on the hose to dump air - which is really not a good idea on any BCD, anyway). If you found using a butt dump was inconvenient before, chances are you were swimming at a head-up angle, or no one had ever shown you how to properly use one. As part of the process of moving 'up' to a streamlined and very functional BP/W, I would encourage you to dive with some experienced users who can show you how useful the butt dump really is. It is placed at the bottom of the wing for a very good reason. Too many divers 'go vertical' underwater in order to vent air from their shoulder dump, and that is completely unnecessary

Don't want a huge wing. All I ever dive is single steel 80's/100's and single aluminum 80's so I don't need a ton of lift. I feel that a large wing would just get in the way.

It would, and you really don't need one, anyway. That is the beauty of a BP/W rig - modularity. Many, if not most, BP/W users diving single cylinders use a wing with between 25 and 30 lbs of lift. And, that is plenty of lift. (In fact, too many jacket BCDs, and soft back-inflates, have 40+ lbs of lift which is both completely unnecessary, and counterproductive in terms of stability.) I dive a 30lb wing with a steel BP, and a single HP 100 or 120, using a 3mm or 5mm suit. I use an 18lb wing with a 1mm and an AL80, in salt water. Wing capacity selection is not a matter of guess-work, however, as others have said. There is an objective computational basis for calculating what you need, based on your exposure suit, cylinder, environment, etc. And, there are resources available to help you understand the calculation.

With all that said...anyone have any brands/products that they would recommend I check out?

There are many options. I use Dive Rite, DSS, Halcyon, Zeagle and Apeks equipment, and am quite comfortable with all of it. You should have no trouble staying under $500. I will echo tbone's comment. Contact Tobin at Deep Sea Supply. He has already posted in this thread (cool_hardware52) so you can send him a PM / start a 'Conversation' with him. He is a great source of information - he designs and builds BP rigs - and has helped many, many SB users.

 

[MichaelMc]

When you say a 10mm farmer john, I assume you mean and beavertail top. Is that 10mm total or each? If it is each (which is what I have) you need to understand the lift requirements to compensate for your wet suit buoyancy loss at depth (and the air you carry), and the risks of deep diving with such a setup. I have a 30lb wing (single tank, shallow) and would not mind a little bit more. I would just search for any of the many times cool_hardware has explained it 'wing lift requirement' will likely find them.

1) Crotch: very nice, though a pain with a weight belt strapped over it,
2) padding: like on top of two layers of 10mm wet suit? Phhh. I laugh. Why? Walking my rig across the parking lot, might help, but a fleece jacket works just fine, and padding is just one more thing that has to dry.
3) other: simple is better to start, and from then on.

Good luck. They are nice to dive.

Edit: I would measure how much buoyancy your suit has. You can do that in a pool. Mine had 32 lb. when new. Depending on the rubber, they do not really lose lift as if just pure air, and may reach a point when they no longer compress, but you need to know, or at least make some good estimates.

 

[MichaelMc]

My takeaways from my process:

Plates and webbing: likely not much different, except maybe the angle of the plate channel if it matters to you and maybe the quality of the steel. Unless you need a tall or short one. I tried to go STA less to keep the tank closer to me, but gave up and use one for convenience and a tighter attachment; also my tank was easy to mount at an odd angle with Oxycheq’s built in stabilizers. I would definitely get steel, not AL (Edit: Otherwise you will search for places to put 4 extra pounds of lead on your back)
Wings: The vulnerable piece, get a good one. Maybe think about a double wing, but that is not in the $300 range. I like my Oxycheq. Tobin's are well regarded here.
Get good bolt snaps, DGX have been good for me; light monkey also but they are expensive.

My wishing for a bit more that 30 lb. is for when the rig is floating by itself. Mine does not have a lot of reserve buoyancy in that situation. 35 lb. would be nicer. And there is no way I could attach my weight belt to the rig, it would all sink.

I help teach scientific diving, so I am familiar with transects etc, though now the students carry them, not me. The crotch D ring is convenient for not messing up side trim, but shoulder, waist, crotch D’s let you pick where to attach extra gear without messing up head/tail trim. Get good bolt snaps, and some cave line.