Irresponsible parenting IMHO. Dad lets uncert. young son dive. (+link)

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Zingtea:
Those tools aren't made for killing. They happen to be useful for that application for some people.

Not true. Many a blade, axe and club is designed specifically for killing.
You can't tell me that a pistol or M16 is used for hunting, unless you hunt other people.

again, totally untrue. During my last few years hundting with guns, I did all my big game hunting with handguns and a lot of small game hunting as well. I love hunting squirrels with a 22 or 38 handgun. I hunted hogs and deer with 44's and 357's and those are also my choice for ground gogs.

A M16 is a different matter. It is a military rifle designed for the military and since it is a fully automatic it is illegal for most civilians to own in this country. However many military firearms have historical significance to collectors and have found use amoung sprtsman for both hunting and target competitions.
Why do you shoot fake targets with a gun when you could use a paintball or BB gun, which is cheaper and less of a hassle to buy?

Paintball or bb guns just aren't any good at knocking over a steel silouette targets at several hundred yars...in other words it just isn't the same thing.

A finely made firearm or bow, for that matter, is a thing of beauty...a work of art. many guns and designs have much history behind them also. A paintball or bbgun is a childs toy.

target shooting with guns or bows also involves the study of lots of other things such as internal balistics, external balistics...we not only shoot the gun but develop the losds we use and build them ourselves. Many of us have done our own stock bedding action tuning and so on also. I not only shoot a bow but I tune them, build arrows, make strings and when time allows, I'll start making my own bows. There's a lot more to it than the bang at the end or a hole in a piece of paper.

Why do you scuba dive when you can free dive much less expensively?

As I said, my own personal favoprite these days for target shooting is a bow, though my bow can certainly kill.
Tell me why you hunt as well.

I like it. Isn't that reason enough?
Are you living in some remote spot in the mountains, a hundred miles from civilization, where there happens to be Internet access? Is the only food available that which you hunt/gather yourself? Or do you kill for fun?

Hunting is fun but my favorite meat is squirrel and they don't sell that in the grocery store. Rabbit (wild rabbit) comes in a close second. I also fish and eat some of the fish that I catch even though they sell plenty of fish in the store.

Why climb a mountain when you can take a helicopter to the top?
Why scuba dive when you can see the underwater world on TV.
Why learn to cook when you can buy ready made meals all over the place?
Why use a golf club to hit a ball into a cup when you can just walk over and drop it in?
Why grow a garden when they sell flowes and vegies in the store?

We each do what it is that we like to do.

There is just a certain satisfaction is developing a skill yourself and making use of it. Shooting well is a skill. Hunting involves many skills. Some people are interested in developing one skill while someone else is interested in another.

Killing, is only the end of a successful hunt, it isn't the whole hunt.

Now I have a question for you. Why should it bother you if I use guns or bows to taget shoot or hunt?
 
Zingtea:
What gave you the idea that I like European gun companies? I mentioned the USA murder rate because I'm American (I don't know about you) and have lived in the USA for 8 years, so that's relevant to me. It's useless for you to try to change the subject by involving national pride. Anyway, I'd love to hear you say that there are more gun-related murders here than in the USA.

What does that mean, shooting police that try to arrest you?

I'll gladly concede the point that the murder rate in Austria is much lower than the US, but that only further proves my point. Per capita, Austria has 4x the gun ownership of California (which has some of the most stringent gun laws) yet California's murder rate is 25x that of Austria. If guns were the problem you would expect Austria to have a much higher murder rate than California. Guns are not the problem, it's the people that use them for ill means.

No, not shooting the police as they try to arrest you. Now you are just being obnoxious. I have family who are in law enforcement and wish they were tougher on crime than they are currently. For an example of a tyrannical government, think China and the Tienanmen Square situation. It is far too easy for repressive governments to control unarmed citizens.
 
When guns are out-lawed, only outlaws will have guns!!

My personal favorite.

And..I would rather be "tried by twelve than carried by eight."
 
Zingtea:
You brought up Nazis because you don't like Austrians. If you lived and worked in Japan right now, I'd have a lot more to say to you, and not just about 60-year-old wars (whale burgers anyone?). I guess you're just bitter that our current state governor is an Austrian.

Wrong again. I voted for Arnold last time and will do so again next week. You seem to be the racist one with the whale burger comment and your self righteous posts regarding lawfull gun owners. Time to go to Demel's and chill out a bit.
 
salimbag:
In reality, it isn't that hard. There are specific things you need to know to live, yeah, but on shallow simple non-repetitive dives under good conditions those things aren't that many or that onerous. Neophytes and children taken on cautious dives with an experienced individual are a simple and good thing. I've taken dozens of individuals on first dives in shallow, clear, calm areas. Told them what they need to know - don't hold your breath, clear your ears, hold my hand, etc. - and it was always a positive and fun experience. .

I am an anarchist at heart too - and not all that impressed by the great oganisations and certification schemes.

However training is exceedingly important. Knowing what you have to do and doing it instintively when something is wrong are different and the difference is training.

I think even prior to shallow dives in good conditions that significant repetitive training is needed.

Of course parents know the child. Parents know the childs ability, stability, etc.
Parents love their children and are the ideal persons to make informed decions on when they are ready for any particular dive......and so many other things.
 
jimclarke:
Of course parents know the child. Parents know the childs ability, stability, etc. Parents love their children and are the ideal persons to make informed decions on when they are ready for any particular dive......and so many other things.

jimclarke: One of the most articulate posts so far on the original topic. I agree with you that most parents certainly have their childs best interests at heart. I remember the first mountain bike rides, ski experiences, diving, rock climbing, kyacks, etc. Wish I could go back and have many more times like that when the kids were young.
 
ditto

Parents love their children and are the ideal persons to make informed decions on when they are ready for any particular dive
 
Where are the moderators?
Where are the New England Folks who should be reminding people that this thread is for New England people?


I happen to live app. 150 yards from Quinsig (you remember. right? The thread about the father taking his young son diving?). I disagee with what he did. However, I refrained from commenting but the way this thread has gone so far off-topic is insane.

To all the folks who posted and don't live within 100 miles of the lake in question, I will be happy to derail any and all topics regarding your dive areas and I will happily post my opinion knowing absolutely nothing about the conditions :) Have a great day.
 
decapoddiver:
Where are the moderators?
Where are the New England Folks who should be reminding people that this thread is for New England people?


I happen to live app. 150 yards from Quinsig (you remember. right? The thread about the father taking his young son diving?). I disagee with what he did. However, I refrained from commenting but the way this thread has gone so far off-topic is insane.

To all the folks who posted and don't live within 100 miles of the lake in question, I will be happy to derail any and all topics regarding your dive areas and I will happily post my opinion knowing absolutely nothing about the conditions :) Have a great day.

- Moderators please close the thread.
 
Here's the problem. I didn't search out this thread - I was on the home page and the content of the thread was listed under "latest threads". It looked interesting - so I clicked on it and replied. From the subject listed on the homepage there's no way to know which forum it was on. I just replied to the topic.

So you snobby new englanders don't want others in on your little forum?

I agree about going off-topic. Ridiculous.
 
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