Is another problem with DAN brewing?

[Christi]

Other than the chambers that are part of the dispute, which, according to other posts, are all owned by the same guy, it seems that all chambers, everywhere consider DAN as good as gold. Interestingly, my local hospital here in SoCal does seem to trust biggies like Aetna or Blue Cross and want all sorts of payment assurances.

My bottom line: So long as DAN will sell me dive insurance, I'll buy it. So long as the chambers in the listed locales don't play by the rules set by DAN or other chambers are not available there (e.g. Cozumel), I'll dive elsewhere. Its not like there aren't lots of places to dive.

Bruce,

1. Just to clarify...all of these chambers are NOT owned by the same guy.

2. There are two other chambers in Cozumel, and both accept DAN...although DAN is also giving them hassles about payment...they have not yet taken the stance not to accept DAN. They ALSO accept PADI, Dive assure or whatever policy you may have.

I'm not going to get into a big debate here abot this, because it's a waste of energy with some. However, I will say from personal experience and from discussions with Dr. Piccolo and his wife Heidi who also handles all of the claims...DAN needs to paly a bit more fairly. Piccolo and the SSi chambers have already lowered their fees once to meet DAN's demands...it's time for DAN to meet them in the middle somewhere.

I know what fees Dr. Piccolo charges for example, and they are far from inflated when you consider the expenses he has with his facility and in comparison with what a basic Dr. visit in the states costs...like I said, I am no longer going to waste my time or energy fretting about this or trying to convince everyone that the Dr.s in Cozumel and other locations are not the only ones that need to make some concessions.

 

[redacted]

I know what fees Dr. Piccolo charges for example, and they are far from inflated when you consider the expenses he has with his facility and in comparison with what a basic Dr. visit in the states costs...like I said, I am no longer going to waste my time or energy fretting about this.

Christi

Would you mind asking Dr. Piccolo or his wife what dive insurance they perfer their customers carry.

Thanks

 

[Christi]

Christi

Would you mind asking Dr. Piccolo or his wife what dive insurance they perfer their customers carry.

Thanks

Sure thing...I am actually planning to see Heidi early this week for lunch.

 

[cowboyneal]

Interesting stance to take you being a business-oriented capitalist and all. Also, I love the reuptation you have, by the way, just looking at some of the posts - it is refreshing, and it sounds like you run a first-rate operation! Bravo!

So just as an interesting discussion point (I dont argue either, waste of time), what you are saying is that certain service providers that have a monoply in a given market should determine what the consumers of those services will pay, and the market has nothing to say about it, and the consumers do not have any right to exert their collective power and influence the pricing? Also, you cannot compare medical fees in the US and Mexico, its comparing apples and avocados. I wonder what your position would be if someone told you that your business should pay more for air or for the use of a pier? Would you not try to get that air and use of the pier at a better price if only not to have to raise your prices and remain competitive in the market? Granted this is not an exact analogy, but it is the best I could do on short notice.

I say let the free market rule! In time, this will all wash out, and the willing sellers of services, and the willing buyers that pay for them will come to a tacit agreement on just what it is those services are worth and what can and should be charged for them, and how much will be paid. However, starting smear and misinformation campaigns in an attempt to skew the market is not fair, nor is it free market capitalism. I think this is the thing that resonates most negatively with most of the commentators (although I could be mistaken).

Happy diving to you too!!!!!

CN

 

[aquaoren]

I'd never suggest insurance companies do anything with the intent of benefitting anyone but themselves. However, sometimes in benefitting themselves, they do benefit others. I think this is such an instance. As for the price of insurance, logic says that if claims costs go up, so to does the premium.

How exactly would you benefit from some chamber operators possibly going out of business and having less chambers to go to if you get a hit?
Logic does say that if cost is down, so will the premiums. OTOH, do you really believe the insurance company would pass on the savings to the consumers?
In my experience, the premiums would go up regardless of how much they'll spend as they are interested in maximizing their revenues. You can see it with all other insurances.

 

[Christi]

Interesting stance to take you being a business-oriented capitalist and all. Also, I love the reuptation you have, by the way, just looking at some of the posts - it is refreshing, and it sounds like you run a first-rate operation! Bravo!

So just as an interesting discussion point (I dont argue either, waste of time), what you are saying is that certain service providers that have a monoply in a given market should determine what the consumers of those services will pay, and the market has nothing to say about it, and the consumers do not have any right to exert their collective power and influence the pricing? Also, you cannot compare medical fees in the US and Mexico, its comparing apples and avocados. I wonder what your position would be if someone told you that your business should pay more for air or for the use of a pier? Would you not try to get that air and use of the pier at a better price if only not to have to raise your prices and remain competitive in the market? Granted this is not an exact analogy, but it is the best I could do on short notice.

I say let the free market rule! In time, this will all wash out, and the willing sellers of services, and the willing buyers that pay for them will come to a tacit agreement on just what it is those services are worth and what can and should be charged for them, and how much will be paid. However, starting smear and misinformation campaigns in an attempt to skew the market is not fair, nor is it free market capitalism. I think this is the thing that resonates most negatively with most of the commentators (although I could be mistaken).

Happy diving to you too!!!!!

CN

Cowboy...this topic is not a new one and I've discussed it and stated my opinions on it until I'm blue in the face. I've also provided first hand experiences and knowledge of several cases over the past few years. I don't think you understand my position at all on this.

I am also not comparing medical costs in Mexico vs. in the states...although they are much higher in the states...that was my point. My point being that I know what the fees are in Cozumel for hyperbaric care, and I would consider them to be reasonable and customary. Just like other medical care, the fees in Coz for example are much less than they would be at a hospital in the US.

 

[ItsBruce]

Christi: I was about to say something profound and wonderfully complimentry, but forgot what it was as I read other posts. So, first, let me just give you a generic profound and wonderful compliment. Second, given Dr. Piccolo's pr3esence in Cozumel, it is on the list of places I look forward to diving. (Too bad its so bloody far from me.) Third, since it seems you know the good doctor, please tell him that next time my wife and I are in Cozumel, we would be honored to take him and his family to dinner. (I just do not know when we may be there.) And, again, thanks for all your kind help on this issue.

 

[Willie]

Found the following here. I added the bold in the middle to highlight a few comments which I suspect very accurately sum up the situation. There was no date of notification listed...Willie

NOTIFICATION REGARDING DAN AMERICA INSURANCE AND RECOMPRESSION TREATMENT

Many of you may have read about a recent series of press releases concerning DAN insurance for recompression services and an ongoing dispute between DAN America and one of the large, international chamber network operators – SubAquatic Safety Services (SSS). We want to assure you, that this problem only relates to DAN America. DAN Southern Africa insurance is not adversely affected in any way nor is the good relationship we have with this international chamber network operator. The same is true for DAN Europe and DAN Japan.

As many of us already know from personal experience with medical aids and medical insurance companies within Southern Africa, the issue of treatment costs is constantly being debated. However, DAN SA sought to engage this chamber operator in a series of negotiations several years back, and we have a sensible and realistic agreement with them that is respected by both parties. Unfortunately DAN America has not achieved this level of agreement and what you have read is the consequence of this problem. It is actively being addressed and should be resolved within the next two months.

Importantly, DAN SA members can be confident that your insurance is fully accepted by the SSS Network, its affiliates, and in fact all treatment centers we have worked with over the past 10 years of serving our members. It is only DAN America members that have been issued with the cautionary notification.

Yours Sincerely,

Frans J. Cronjé, MD

President & CEO - DAN Southern Africa​

 

[fairybasslet]

That is very interesting Wet-Willie. Looks like DAN SA is trying to distance themselves from DAN America.

 

[cdiver2]

DAN IS TOPS. After becoming ill in Yap then I thought I had recovered but got worse in Palau. I took a trip in a ambulance, emergency room and a IV the Dr said he did not think it was a bend but they were going to give me a 1 1/4 hour chamber ride to help me recover, follow up visit the next day. DAN payed no problem no questions.

Going back to reasonable and customary charges all of the above cost $1,631 . 48
I wonder what this would have cost in Coz at a SSS chamber?