Is safe second really needed?

[Reg Braithwaite]

ake sure you can live with yourself when you come upon another diver in distress who is already starting to panic and can't manage to control themselves well enough to buddy breath. If it does happen, however unlikely, can you live with knowing that your refusal to abide by community standards likely cost someone their life?

Whoa, Nelly!

I hear you, and I have made the personal choice to make myself as safe as possible given my paucity of experience. For example, I completed my Rescue Diver coursework and confined water training and will be doing the open water dives in a few weeks when the season gets underway here.

And honestly, I would prefer that as many people as possible carry alternate air sources, practice good gas management, and so forth. The sea would be a better place and lives would be saved.

But I do stop short of suggesting it is a matter of conscience. A matter of choice, perhaps. But rather than admonish those who do not choose to be roving rescue divers, I would prefer to praise those who go above and beyond to help others.

p.s. I want to close with something else. I don't think it's the main point of what you were trying to say, I think you were using it as an example. But you brought up the possibility of coming across a diver who needs air but who is panicking and cannot buddy breathe.

Speaking as a new diver with no actual rescue experience, I'm not sure I could save that person without risking my own life. Sure, I can donate my primary and breathe off my necklaced alternate. But will this person struggle and tear my mask off or rip my secondary from my mouth? Will they rocket to the surface and expose me to getting bent or an embolism?

While clearly less than "optimal" in an emergecy, the divers on this thread advocating a single air source do have a means of sharing air with a properly trained and non-panicking diver. It's not clear to me that a diver who is improperly trained and/or panicking can be saved without risking the rescuer's life with or without a secondary air source.

Speaking for myself, I think the single greatest thing anyone can do to save another diver's life is to encourage them to be a safe diver.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, Walter, but I don't believe that buddy breathing has been 'a standard of training' for the majority of scuba instructors for at least the past decade. Whether it should be, of course, is a different matter.

I was required to demonstrate buddy breathing as part of my PADI OW confined water training and my PADI Confined Water Rescue Diver training. It was not part of my IANTD Recreational Trimix course, but I can't speak to their OW curriculum.

 

[pittyyofool]

I was told once to stay away from a diver ( who had no octo) because he wouldn't help me if I got in trouble

I carry an integrated inflator/octo, it is held close to my body with a retractable keeper...no bashing problems
I also carry a pony, which I can quickly detatch and hand to my buddy if they need it ( so there is no problem with them grabbing my reg)
carry one if you want...don't carry one if you don't want to...I don't care as you are not my buddy

It Is not that I will not offer to help, in fact I will do everything in my power to get an OOA diver to the surface. Buddy breathing just might be a part of that. Or If we are shallow enough (20ft), I might let the OOA diver keep my primary while I ascend as if it were an ESA. Don't outcast me because I prefer not to dive with an octo, I have no problem putting on an octo If my buddy at the time would like me to. If I happen to stumble across an OOA stranger (when diving in a remote area) I will get them to the surface alive. If they don't give my reg back when it is time, they might not be happy that I used force to take command of the situation, but at least they live another day.

 

[pittyyofool]

My dads buddy Jim learned to dive during high school in the mid 50's (he thinks 1956). Buddy breathing was not included in the course curriculum because they were all using double hose regs that were very hard to clear if flooded. You had to have a full breath to clear the exhaust. This makes buddy breathing almost impossible, not to mention how up close and personal you would have to get.
So according to all of this legal liability stuff and relying on your training. Since Jim was never officially trained in buddy breathing (edit: with a single hose), the use of an octo, or to use a single hose regulator for that matter. Would he legally be better off to Flee the scene of an OOA situation, and leave the "struggling" diver to fend for them self? Because he has never been trained to operate gear he is currently using.

 

[Walter]

I'd guess that were it to become a legal question, a jury would be easily led to believe that proper use of an octo is so mind-numbingly obvious to an experienced diver that lack of specific training is not an acceptable excuse

The same case can be made for buddy breathing, breathe, pass it back, breathe pass it back. Buddy breathing is extremely easy. Someone farm animal stupid could get it.

Buddy breathing was not included in the course curriculum because they were all using double hose regs that were very hard to clear if flooded. You had to have a full breath to clear the exhaust. This makes buddy breathing almost impossible, not to mention how up close and personal you would have to get.

It sounds like your dad's buddy, Jim, either never really learned how to dive with a double hose or has fortton what he learned and is now talking through his butt. It's a tad harder to buddy breathe with a double hose, but not "almost impossible." A flooded double hose is not all that hard to clear and it's not all that hard to prevent it from flooding in the first place. As for being up close and personal, true, but then so is buddy breathing with a single hose. Even buddy breathing with a double hose is pretty easy.

 

[Slonda828]

I have to agree with Walter. If you need to use a double hose regulator for buddy breathing, you can either pass it in the heads up position and blast clear it, or just keep the mouthpiece down when you pass it and get a tiny bit of water in your mouth. Alternatively, you can buddy breath with the donor on his left side (receiver on their right side) so that the exhalation hose is lower than the mouthpiece. This method is good in that the cage valves facilitate the regulator clearing itself. I've practiced both, and it's not hard. My girlfriend learned to do it, and she only has 15 dives.

 

[captain]

My dads buddy Jim learned to dive during high school in the mid 50's (he thinks 1956). Buddy breathing was not included in the course curriculum because they were all using double hose regs that were very hard to clear if flooded. You had to have a full breath to clear the exhaust. This makes buddy breathing almost impossible, not to mention how up close and personal you would have to get.
So according to all of this legal liability stuff and relying on your training. Since Jim was never officially trained in buddy breathing, the use of an octo, or to use a single hose regulator for that matter. He would legally be better off to Flee the scene of an OOA situation, and leave the "struggling" diver to fend for them self. Because he has never been trained to operate gear he is currently using.

Buddy breathing with a double hose is not that difficult just different. Just watch a few Sea Hunt videos.

 

[captain]

My dads buddy Jim learned to dive during high school in the mid 50's (he thinks 1956). Buddy breathing was not included in the course curriculum because they were all using double hose regs that were very hard to clear if flooded. You had to have a full breath to clear the exhaust. This makes buddy breathing almost impossible, not to mention how up close and personal you would have to get.
So according to all of this legal liability stuff and relying on your training. Since Jim was never officially trained in buddy breathing, the use of an octo, or to use a single hose regulator for that matter. He would legally be better off to Flee the scene of an OOA situation, and leave the "struggling" diver to fend for them self. Because he has never been trained to operate gear he is currently using.

Buddy breathing with a double hose is not that difficult just different. Just watch a few Sea Hunt videos.

 

[tomboyy]

The same case can be made for buddy breathing, breathe, pass it back, breathe pass it back. Buddy breathing is extremely easy. Someone farm animal stupid could get it.

Breath , breath , pass


I'm pretty sure that last sentence is fragmented

 

[scubadude79]

Why did they actually turn off the valve to your tank, why not just pretend that it is not working and then do the buddy breathing exercise?
Sounds kind of risky for an OW check out to turn off a working tank at depth. What happens if the instructors reg has a problem.

Maybe I misunderstood but, I wouldn't be turning off a newbies tank at depth anytime! :O