Is there an instructor crisis?

[lostsheep]

BAUE members with at least GUE Tech 1 certification are welcome on those charters.

Alpine skiing / snowboarding is just as expensive as diving when you add up all the travel costs but the Lake Tahoe area resorts are packed every weekend during the season.

Non sense. skiing / snowboarding is WAY cheaper for those who don’t have means. I’d like to compare ski bums to dive bums. I know I made it a season in Tahoe working for $6/hour so I could have a season pass, I had 16 roommates, I slept in the closet, and I hitchiked back and forth from Tahoe Donner to Squaw everyday (literally at -15F one day). Im sure broke divers like that exist somewhere but it certainly isn’t in SF Bay Area / Monterey.

WRT tech charters My question was rhetorical, I know who is allowed on the tech charters hence my claim it might as well be a private boat. I’ve considered tech 1 for access to the boat but was given some RIDICULOUS stipulations that I won’t be capitulating to. Their boat , their rules, but IMO they’re doing our community a disservice.

ETA: since this thread is about an instructor crisis , to what extent does the aforementioned exclusivity contribute to this crisis? That was rhetorical too in case it wasn’t obvious.

 

[scubaozy]

And how is this fireman and the police men that has retired?
The boomers (like your police men) could still buy a house for 60 grand made good money, safe money and could live of one income. The cost of housing and general cost of living haven't risen by the same rate since the 80s. The same house that used was build for 70 Mark goes for +450k Euro these days in my area.
The official inflation numbers you have linked to are a joke. You just have to look at the increase in engery cost over the last 20 years. Electricity alone has more than tripled in the last 20 years.
You 'seeing' expensives car on the street doesn't mean anything.

6 years ago I bought a house in Berlin (to live in it) with interest rates less than 1% for 15 years. House prices have been increasing, so, I am technically making money with banks money. I can assure you I am not a capitalist.. This is how people buy a house, if you did not, you will have to wait up until the end of the recession.
I am a national of a developing country, all I can tell you is, if one is born with the priviliges of being white ethnic German with full access to free university education and think it is tough, perhaps they want to swap their place with someone who is trying to cross mediterranean on an inflatable boat, I bet they will be happily accepting the exchange.
There is nothing wrong with the stats, German government is giving roughly comparable stats. I moved to Germany in 2011 from Scandinavia, I am absolutely certain that energy prices were stable until the war and electricity was one of the most expensive even 12 years ago and this is due idiotic energy policies.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Non sense. skiing / snowboarding is WAY cheaper for those who don’t have means. I’d like to compare ski bums to dive bums. I know I made it a season in Tahoe working for $6/hour so I could have a season pass, I had 16 roommates, I slept in the closet, and I hitchiked back and forth from Tahoe Donner to Squaw everyday (literally at -15F one day). Im sure broke divers like that exist somewhere but it certainly isn’t in SF Bay Area / Monterey.

I think we're talking past each other. Obviously there are ways to ski on the cheap. But Palisades Tahoe charges $330 for a full day group ski lesson including gear rental and lift ticket. That's just for one day, not a complete course. Add in gas, lodging, food, and tips and the net cost for a ski training weekend in Tahoe is probably higher than an OW certification course in Monterey. Why are all those SF Bay Area residents choosing to go skiing instead of diving? Cost doesn't seem to be the main factor.

WRT tech charters My question was rhetorical, I know who is allowed on the tech charters hence my claim it might as well be a private boat. I’ve considered tech 1 for access to the boat but was given some RIDICULOUS stipulations that I won’t be capitulating to.

Which specific stipulations are ridiculous? It's been quite a while since I took GUE Tech 1 but the course standards seemed reasonable based on the goal of producing technical divers who can operate safely as part of a unified team.

The nice thing about BAUE tech charters is that everyone does things the same way every time. This has allowed us to keep running frequent tech charters year after year with a good safety record. I know some other local boat operators are reluctant to run tech charters due to previous bad experiences with safety incidents or just general CFs.

But seriously, if you're not interested in diving within GUE standards then talk to Phil Sammet. He's a good guy and will take you wherever you want to go at a reasonable price.

 

[berndo]

I moved to Germany in 2011 from Scandinavia, I am absolutely certain that energy prices were stable until the war and electricity was one of the most expensive even 12 years ago and this is due idiotic energy policies.

Yeah, that total nonsense. If you just here since 2011 than you don't even know what I'm talking about.
I said that the boomers could buy a house of one middle class income and now they can't. You probably didn't understand this because you used an old retired police man as an example and kinda making my point.
The Government numbers on inflation are a joke and everbody knows it.

... if one is born with the priviliges of being white ethnic German ...

I love when people move to a foreign country and b!tch about the locals.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Non sense. skiing / snowboarding is WAY cheaper for those who don’t have means. I’d like to compare ski bums to dive bums. I know I made it a season in Tahoe working for $6/hour so I could have a season pass, I had 16 roommates, I slept in the closet, and I hitchiked back and forth from Tahoe Donner to Squaw everyday (literally at -15F one day). Im sure broke divers like that exist somewhere but it certainly isn’t in SF Bay Area / Monterey.

WRT tech charters My question was rhetorical, I know who is allowed on the tech charters hence my claim it might as well be a private boat. I’ve considered tech 1 for access to the boat but was given some RIDICULOUS stipulations that I won’t be capitulating to. Their boat , their rules, but IMO they’re doing our community a disservice.

ETA: since this thread is about an instructor crisis , to what extent does the aforementioned exclusivity contribute to this crisis? That was rhetorical too in case it wasn’t obvious.

It's a little bit apples and oranges. You're comparing moving to a ski town (unless you're one of the few born there) vs. diving where you live (the Monterrey example). You can easily live on the cheap being a dive bum in, say, Roatan. Not quite as cheap, but I suspect doable in parts of Florida.

 

[berndo]

I think we're talking past each other. Obviously there are ways to ski on the cheap. But Palisades Tahoe charges $330 for a full day group ski lesson including gear rental and lift ticket. That's just for one day, not a complete course.

Who takes skiing lessons? Everybody that I know just gets a lift pass for a week. That's way cheaper than diving. The gear is also cheaper. It's not even close.

 

[lostsheep]

Which specific stipulations are ridiculous? It's been quite a while since I took GUE Tech 1 but the course standards seemed reasonable based on the goal of producing technical divers who can operate safely as part of a unified team.

It's tough to expand on my statement without publicly flaming someone; DM me if you want more info.

It's a little bit apples and oranges. You're comparing moving to a ski town (unless you're one of the few born there) vs. diving where you live (the Monterrey example). You can easily live on the cheap being a dive bum in, say, Roatan. Not quite as cheap, but I suspect doable in parts of Florida.

Fair enough. That said, I rode 30-40 days a year for 15 years or so and only lived there one season, the rest were primarily day trips from SF Bay Area pulling all kinds of nonsense (in the earlier years) to finance it. Boarding and skiing is way easier to do on the cheap, that is my primary point here.

ETA: Lessons for skiing / snowboarding are more akin to a PADI Discover Scuba Course you would take at an all inclusive resort.

 

[scubaozy]

Yeah, that total nonsense. If you just here since 2011 than you don't even know what I'm talking about.
I said that the boomers could buy a house of one middle class income and now they can't. You probably didn't understand this because you used an old retired police man as an example and kinda making my point.

I think you are talking utter non-sense. Being police or firemen in Germany is life long guaranteed employment, afaik, except gross negligence, they are not dismissable, promotions are guarantied as well as yearly inflation adjustments. Policemen enjoy early retirement rights, extra credit score, discounts on insurences and many many other benefits.
You mentioned 20 years of which I lived through 12 of it, I know exactly what I pay for my bills. I think you should stop firing from hip.

The Government numbers on inflation are a joke and everbody knows it.

This sounds like populism to my ears.

I said that the boomers could buy a house of one middle class income and now they can't.

This is another non sense, I am paying same amount to loan installments monthly to what I would pay for rent in Berlin.
Beside, what kind of archaic mind wants to keep their wives at home not working? Why don't you join us into 21st century?

I love when people move to a foreign country and b!tch about the locals.

I am living since mid 90ies in different countries, I am long past that. People in developing countries are breaking stones in quarries for 2$ a day and you complain your wife has to work?.. You have way more than majority of the world population.

 

[berndo]

I think you are talking utter non-sense. Being police or firemen in Germany is life long guaranteed employment, afaik, except gross negligence, they are not dismissable, promotions are guarantied as well as yearly inflation adjustments. Policemen enjoy early retirement rights, extra credit score, discounts on insurences and many many other benefits.

Yes, for the third time: The boomers (like your retired policemen) could live off one income and make a good living. That's why I said.

It's laughable to suggest that buying power hasn't decreased over the last decades. Housing in many cities have more than doubled in the last 10 years alone, wages haven't anywhere near doubled.
The statistics for housing etc. factor in regions that are dying and where you can get a house for 20k grand because there are no jobs and people have to leave. That's how they're getting to these low cost increases for housing in these BS statistics.

You wouldn't now but since the Euro was introduced all food stuffs and most other stuff have massively gone up in price and people don't make 2x or 3x for the same job now. I don't need to look at some dumb statistic, as I know this for a fact.

Beside, what kind of archaic mind wants to keep their wives at home not working?

The point was that now men and women HAVE to work to make ends meet. Before they didn't have to. Boomer women were allowed to work in Germany, maybe they weren't allowed to work in your country and maybe still aren't.

And BTW buddy. The 'free' education and all the other 'free' stuff you get to enjoy were build and payed for by those bad 'white privilege' people who worked hard and paid alot of their hard earned money into the system for entire working lives.

How people don't understand why not more young people get into pricey hobbies like scuba these days, amazes me. I wonder if it's mostly older people or people who just grown up rich that don't undestand what stuff costs these days.

 

[MichaelMc]

The point is that there are a lot of people in this area who can well afford to dive but choose to pursue other hobbies. Why is that? Alpine skiing / snowboarding is just as expensive as diving when you add up all the travel costs but the Lake Tahoe area resorts are packed every weekend during the season.

Post ski:
- Put skis in outside rack, get hot chocolate and a burger at cafe at bottom of slope or on the slope.
- Carry three pound (?) skis over shoulder, stop at a shop or two in the village on the way, load it in car, drive to hotel/house.

Post dive:
- Board pitching dive boat with 100+ pounds on your back, or out of surf and up beach.
- Change out of tight wet gear into dry clothes outside.
- Quick fresh water shower to get salt out of hair and off body.
- Shlep two tanks, lead, etc back to car, shop for refills, come back later for them, and take to hotel. Clean salt off of it all.

I like diving, but outside of the tropics and tank include boats, the setup and teardown time and effort are high!