LDS telling a story

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I disagree with the directionality implied in the correllation between wal-marts and small towns that seem to be growing. I'd suggest based on the evidence that wal-mart moves there because they are growing, not that they are growing because walmart moved there. Walmart is well known as a small town business killer.

My point was that LP is similar in its effect on small local dive shops. The difference is that there is not enough volume for an LP in every town - which is why they are an internet oriented business. My other point is that most of the herd shows concern with and desire for the lowest price, but then expects the LDS to stick around and subsist on what is left with the expectation that they keep their doors open to supply gas to the same divers who saved a few bucks to buy from LP.

The irony here is that we then blame local dive shops for not adopting a new business model or for getting into a low volume business in the first place. And we revere Sam Walton for making a fotune pumping money out of local communities. So, if the LDS owners take that astute advice, they'll close the doors and open some other business. That will benefit the diving community how? Just because a new idea makes money does not make it the right thing to do. The thought that it does is one of the major issues we face - we as a herd are addicted to next quarter's profit and loss statement and it leaves us short sighted with regard to the long term health of our economy. It is also how we got in the position of no longer being competitive in the first place.

If you think LP will stick around once the market forces make it less profitable you are badly mistaken - they'll just quietly and gradually slide into some other market. On the other hand, a large number of the local dives shops in this country got into the dive business, not because it was lucrative but rather because they had a passion for diving and were willing to take the risk just to create diving opportunities in their local areas. And we reward this loyalty to the sport by buying on-line.

Again, I can empathize with an LDS owner who has an attitude about on-line retailers and I have little sympathy for people who buy on line to save a few bucks and then whine when they get push back from an LDS and/or when their LDS charges an arm and a leg for training, service and gas or chooses to close the doors as there are better ways to make money.
 
I was almost ready to purchase from my one and only LDS, Until he started telling me that all of the internet stuff was BS. Well he only carried Aqualung products and said all of the others are not as good. How do you feel about about this comment I received? It made me ready to just order all my gear from the net... ScubaToys or LeisurePro.... I have tried to deal with the lds and mind you I do not like it. So I am going to go net to get my gear. Heck I can service it anyway even though I have never seen it. I do all the work on my home and race car ( does that sound stupid) Heck I will tell you most things in your house (Plumbing wise) are not to far from scuba. Hit me with your best thoughts. I have tried to come to reason but cannot. Fred

Well, his behaviour sounds very odd. All my LDS does when I mention buying off the internet is mention a grey market, saying that not all online sellers are dealers from certain brands or manufacturers. Personally, I really don't worry about the grey market for small stuff like fins, or a compass; but for regs, computers, suits, etc.... you should buy from a dealer. Or, some dealers will sell you the product, and ship it to you. Again, be wary. I do have to admit that as far as I've seen, Aqualung is not one of the higher brands, (I think Scubatoys, Apeks, and Atomic are among the highest, correct me if I'm wrong) His line about the internet sellers being garbage is very useless. I have been more than happy with stuff I have ordered from Scubatoys.

In short, I would stay away from that dealer as much as possible (you mentioned he's the only dive shop around, so you'll have to get tanks filled there), and see if you can get gear elsewhere, even if it means making a short trip to another dealer.

Hope that helps,
Taylor
Vicdiver656
 
Manufacturers have various policies. Some have a MSRP, a recommended selling price. Some have a MARP, a minimum price you can advertise, which you can then discount. Some allow you to pick a price when youre selling packages. I think LDS need to focus on what they can count on, which is renewable items like defog and mouthpieces, and service, such as tank fills and training. Obviously there are tens of thousands of dive centers out there, so they must be making some money. In the end, people will pay more to buy from a shop they are loyal to. Scuba is a luxury, so if you are buying gear you tend to have disposable income. Dive shops simply need to learn to stop disrespecting the knowledge of the consumer, and just give them what they want. If they cant cut their price, say so. Or work a deal on something you can discount. Buy that BC at MSRP, and Ill give you 50% off a tank.
 
LP's storefront in Manhattan is pretty tiny, and on the 2nd floor, so the rent is probably not quite as sky-high as a typical NYC retail street level store would be.

Comparing LP to Walmart is kind of an interesting analogy, but IMO Walmart is a much more insidious business model. Going to a small town Walmart is one of life's truly depressing daily experiences and does capsule-ize the break down of small town culture in the U.S., having been replaced by the corporate maw. But, of course, they're hardly alone, just drive through any small town and try to find ANY locally owned and operated business. There is a huge cultural price to pay for this.

LP, OTOH, I don't think is attacking our culture, and personally I'd just as soon prefer to see the diving community move towards a separation of instruction and retail sales. I believe the quality of instruction would improve dramatically. If there is an "evil corporate empire" trying to suck the life out of local/regional diving, my vote would go more to PADI than LP. Ooops, opened up another can of worms with that one!
 
LP's storefront in Manhattan is pretty tiny, and on the 2nd floor, so the rent is probably not quite as sky-high as a typical NYC retail street level store would be.

Comparing LP to Walmart is kind of an interesting analogy, but IMO Walmart is a much more insidious business model. Going to a small town Walmart is one of life's truly depressing daily experiences and does capsule-ize the break down of small town culture in the U.S., having been replaced by the corporate maw. But, of course, they're hardly alone, just drive through any small town and try to find ANY locally owned and operated business. There is a huge cultural price to pay for this.

LP, OTOH, I don't think is attacking our culture, and personally I'd just as soon prefer to see the diving community move towards a separation of instruction and retail sales. I believe the quality of instruction would improve dramatically. If there is an "evil corporate empire" trying to suck the life out of local/regional diving, my vote would go more to PADI than LP. Ooops, opened up another can of worms with that one!

The actually have 3 floors on that building, just the customer floor is the 3rd floor, and they have a large warehouse facility in NJ. Eventhough they are not on street level, the operational cost is pretty high never the less. But they also know that they do not have to be on street level, scuba is a luxury and you plan your purchases most of the time. So they really are not looking to attract the regular walk by pedestrian traffic as most will not buy scuba gear on the regular bases.

I agree LP is not Wal-Mart and I feel that LP just one of the online dealers that is helping grow scuba, buy letting us common folks afford scuba gear. I think the real answer for scuba is to grow the diver base. :)
 
Walmarts job is to make money, and Im sure their employees, stockholders, and customers appreciate that. Its simply natural that efficiency is the direction that all businesses go. You simply have to find a way to compete on something other than price. Last I checked, you cant fill your tank online, or get that last minute item you forgot online as your boarding the boat, or heck, you cant dive online, and you cant learn to dive entirely online.

A succesful dive business diversifies its income and becomes a social center for the local dive community. Im willing to spend a little extra to buy from my friends than some anonymous business online.
 
Another good thread...:popcorn:

Let's don't get too far from topic.

I was almost ready to purchase from my one and only LDS, Until he started telling me that all of the internet stuff was BS. Well he only carried Aqualung products and said all of the others are not as good. How do you feel about about this comment I received? It made me ready to just order all my gear from the net... ScubaToys or LeisurePro.... I have tried to deal with the lds and mind you I do not like it. So I am going to go net to get my gear. Heck I can service it anyway even though I have never seen it. I do all the work on my home and race car ( does that sound stupid) Heck I will tell you most things in your house (Plumbing wise) are not to far from scuba. Hit me with your best thoughts. I have tried to come to reason but cannot. Fred

Personally, before firing my LDS I'd have to question him on his statements. What is driving him say these things. Certainly, if you have a bad feeling about the LDS just don't use it. Regarding servicing your own equipment...I'm all for it. As others have pointed out training and parts availability are things to consider.

Safe diving.
 
Imagine you come into a CD store and all they carry is music by AC/DC. When you inquire about a different band you're interested in, the shop owner says: "We carry only music by AC/DC for a reason. Music by any band other than AC/DC is BS and that's why we don't sell it. You should really buy only AC/DC CDs."

Would you still go to that store (or post this question in this forum) if this happened to you? I think you have the answer right there.


I think a car dealer analogy would be better. I would much rather buy from a car dealer that only deals with one brand of car (in the new market).
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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