Manufacturer condones Warsaw Grouper slaughter

[Kim]

"To get to the details takes too long, but to KISS, "the solution" is in the expansion of commercial fish farming of high quality popular food species to the point that it is cheaper to harvest farmed fish commercially, and cheaper to the consumer to buy farmed fish than it is to get them from the ocean. This will drive demand for wild fish down and prices for wild fish down to the point that commercial success just isn't possible by fishing the oceans; commercial fishing will become all but extinct.
Rick

I see more and more fish farms in Japan these days. I don't know what the proportion of farmed to wild fish is here, but I bet that it's changing fast. It's not just fish either. They have farmed seaweed in large quantities as well. Maybe shellfish too, I'm not sure.
Seems like a good idea to me.

When you think about it, on land mankind switched from hunter/gatherer to farmer a long time ago. The same principles would seem very valid applied to the sea.

 

[Damselfish]

Some will say there are problems with fish farming as well. Many because of the density involved in fish farming, like any other farming - problems with pollution from chemicals, waste or disease. In some cases escaped farmed fish causing problems in the wild fish population, etc.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Some will say there are problems with fish farming as well. Many because of the density involved in fish farming, like any other farming - problems with pollution from chemicals, waste or disease. In some cases escaped farmed fish causing problems in the wild fish population, etc.

If it were easy it'd already have been done. Like anything worthwhile, there are obstacles that must be overcome.
"Always listen to experts. They will tell you what cannot be done, and why. Then do it." (Heinlein)
Rick

 

[drdiver1952]

Some will say there are problems with fish farming as well. Many because of the density involved in fish farming, like any other farming - problems with pollution from chemicals, waste or disease. In some cases escaped farmed fish causing problems in the wild fish population, etc.

These issues are valid ones, but these types of pollution are point source problems and can be addressed at the source. They are land based operations and are thus more susceptible to monitoring, regulation, etc. than international fishing operations which can do pretty much whatever they want to do.

 

[DeepBlueResort]

Hi All

I would say that I agree with drdiver1952 and Rick Murchison

 

[archman]

There was a recent attempt to set up a large commercial farm for cobia on Eleuthera. It folded, not due to environmental concerns, but because the maintenance costs were too high to make any profit. It never even got close to breaking even.

A lot of other farmed fish require more animal protein fed to them than they themselves export out to the consumer as fillets. Herbivorous fishes seem to be the way to go. And as the U.S. is more of a beef and chicken country than virtually all other countries with appreciable coastlines, we're typically among the last on the mariculture scene. Japan's on the forefront. Opposite extremes.

Here in Texas we have extensive fish hatcheries, that produce and release mass quantities of commercially and recreationally important species. They do a pretty good job maintaining many wild stocks, or at least substantially slowing their decline. Hatcheries are a very useful tool when combined with strong fishery regulation.

***
We have dedicated red tide and hypoxia threads on this forum, with more useful information than one can typically get via googling.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=80533
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=66552

We're nearing the end of the fall red tide "season" in the U.S., so public interest will start to decline this month. RIOceanographers's probably more current on HAB's than I am, being a plankton guy. As of the late 1990's, every oceanographer and some marine biologists are required to be well versed on this topic.
***
Recreational fishing is no longer the "abused minority" regarding fishery impacts. It is now a rising star of its own accord in many regions of the U.S.. In some places it matches commercial fishing intensity.

 

[ReefGuy]

I'm not sure that the red tide debate is going away quite so easily this year. This is by far the worst I've ever seen, and I do belive that there's more to it than just Red Tide. There's a section of the gulf that was and still pretty much is dead (pretty much out from Tampa). I think we've got a mess on our hands, and it won't be long before it comes out.

I agree that the Rec fishing is growing, but here in Florida, the take is split is 81% commercial and 19% rec. What really rankles is that they are cutting back on the rec's take without touching the commercial. They kill more in bycatch than we are allotted (I don't know if this is strictly true, but it is certainly not out of the question).

What makes it even worse is that, according to their data, the recs overfished their limit last year. With four hurricanes. I don't belive that it adds up. FWIW, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission isn't enforcing the reduction, our state limits are the same.

We're nearing the end of the fall red tide "season" in the U.S., so public interest will start to decline this month.
***
Recreational fishing is no longer the "abused minority" regarding fishery impacts. It is now a rising star of its own accord in many regions of the U.S.. In some places it matches commercial fishing intensity.

 

[archman]

I'm not sure that the red tide debate is going away quite so easily this year. This is by far the worst I've ever seen, and I do belive that there's more to it than just Red Tide. There's a section of the gulf that was and still pretty much is dead (pretty much out from Tampa). I think we've got a mess on our hands, and it won't be long before it comes out.

Public concern is regional and cyclic, directly related to current outbreaks. Right now the major interest is in Florida. Florida tends to get the most attention. Often it's in Texas. Louisiana gets flak from its dead zone every summer; not so much the last few years. North Carolina went ballistic after it's first flesh-eating bacteria outbreak in the 1990's. Long Island has a brown tide phytoplankter that gives the local estuaries trouble from time to time. We have a similar species in Texas that was quite the media darling about eight years ago. Now it's gone, and the public barely remembers it ever happened. Red tides are just like storms... quickly forgotten by folks not directly impacted. The worst red tide I ever saw was in Corpus Christi in '96; I doubt anyone on this board remembers anything about it, though it made regional news for weeks. You couldn't approach the beaches without coughing and burning eyes.

Once winter temperatures come in, algal outbreaks plummet. You get higher dissolved oxygen levels in colder water, which offset "dead zone" effects. The in-water metabolic rates of critters also drops, which reduce the biological oxygen demand. The nastier algae are thinner on the ground, so less biotoxin is produced. Winter storms also help by breaking up inshore water stratification. The environmental criteria that foster dead zones and red tides peter out by mid-autumn in North America, except for freak events. They pick up again in the spring.

HAB outbreaks are on the upswing, however. There is plenty of ongoing research on it, and the government is well aware of it. The general consensus is nutrient enrichment, and the general solution is super-expensive point/nonpoint treatment. That's not happening anytime soon, in fact the feds are currently trying to scale back water treatment. Officially it's referred to as "blending". Here, I found a link.
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2005/03/10/boni-sewage/

Allowing that to pass will increase red tide/dead zone outbreaks, obviously.

 

[peterbkk]

The solution is in making current commercial fishing practices less attractive than doing other things - by making it a money-losing proposition.
To get to the details takes too long, but to KISS, "the solution" is in the expansion of commercial fish farming of high quality popular food species to the point that it is cheaper to harvest farmed fish commercially, and cheaper to the consumer to buy farmed fish than it is to get them from the ocean. This will drive demand for wild fish down and prices for wild fish down to the point that commercial success just isn't possible by fishing the oceans; commercial fishing will become all but extinct.
Rick

I agree that the answer has to be in fish farming. And the sooner the better.

Hopefully, commercial ocean fishing will become extinct before the fish do.

Yes, there are all sort of problems with fish farming but the only way to solve them is to keep trying.

Here in Thailand, the prawn farming industry is huge, now becoming Thailand's third largest export, mainly to Japan and the US. But, the best way to build prawn farms is close to the sea. So, the prawn farmers clear mangroves to build them. And, as you know, the mangroves are a very significant breeding ground for many species of marine life. Also, when they build prawn farms inland, the soil salinity in surrounding areas increases, affecting the rice crops. But, while not easy problems to solve, environment-friendly fish farming must be the goal to aim for. Hopefully the researchers will come up with solutions to these and other problems soon. I did my small part by convincing one of my clients, a large local commercial bank, that the fish farming industry was a good investment target...

And then, when ocean fish stocks have recovered and the world has stopped destroying the oceans, it'll be OK by me for all the spearfishermen to get out there and spear whatever they want to eat and for the scuba gear manufacturers to openly promote their support of spearfishing. In the meantime... (enough said, you all know my view by now)

Regards
Peter

 

[D_B]

Wow ...

.... And then, when ocean fish stocks have recovered and the world has stopped destroying the oceans, it'll be OK by me for all the spearfishermen to get out there and spear whatever they want to eat and for the scuba gear manufacturers to openly promote their support of spearfishing. In the meantime... (enough said, you all know my view by now)

Regards
Peter

... anyone for some more popcorn before the second act starts