Manufacturer condones Warsaw Grouper slaughter

[peterbkk]

Commercial fishing methods are indiscriminant killers. They go after grouper, for example, and end up killing tons of illegal grouper (too small), sharks, trutles, birds, etc, ie, wromg species, and so on. Shrimp boats catch the tasty critters with nets, and for each pound of shrimp something like 10 pounds of fish are killed. Fish that are not used.

So, when you go to the store, or send your cook for you with instructions to buy just the right fish, be advised that the single fish you're buying in fact represents many other fish that were killed & wasted. At best they may have been used for bait.

Worrying about spearfishing as it concerns threats to the fishery is equivalent to worrying about a mouse when an elephant is about to run you over. There are many, far larger problems that need to be addressed before the impact of spear fishing can be considered to amount to more than a fart in a whirlwind.

Well, I don't agree with farting in a whirlwind either. My mother told me farting anywhere was wrong.

A lot of people who disagree with my contention that "a scuba manufacturer publicly supporting the killing of endangered fish does not help the scuba community in its role of advocates for ocean conservation" have come back with the argument that "the commercial fishing industry is the real culprit". I agree completely that the commercial fishing industry is the real culprit. I am not an idiot. I do understand all about the damage the commercial fishing causes. I am personally trying to do something about this in my backyard (see my earlier post). My efforts to help educate Thai fishermen are a "drop in the ocean" but it is something.

If we could solve the problem with the world's commercial fishing industry, any kind of recreational fishing would be insignificant.

But, right now, I believe that we are faced with the potential destruction of the oceans as we know them. It is not just running out of fish that we should worry about. When the fish are decimated, the impact cascades through the ecosystem. Some creatures bloom - they destroy the habitat of others. As best we can understand, it will be a vicious circle with no happy ending.

Who will stand up for the oceans? I hope that the scuba diving community will.

Does it help that some members of the scuba diving community apparently openly condone the killing of some marine life, simply because the method is more selective? I don't think so.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we can mount an argument that, while we do support marine protection we also support some selective recreational killing. But I can not see how that argument will fly...

Regards
Peter

 

[Kim]

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we can mount an argument that, while we do support marine protection we also support some selective recreational killing. But I can not see how that argument will fly...

It seems to me that if we are going to protect fish 100% then everyone would have to stop eating fish - and that's not going to happen. The argument that has been made here by the hunters is that their method - spearfishing - is by far the lesser of several evils. Compared to the alternatives which have been so graphically illustrated then I think that that argument flies quite well. Sometimes when you think something completely through, the conclusion you reach can be very different to what you first imagined it might be. It can be a very difficult to be that honest with yourself sometimes.

 

[CBulla]

It seems to me that if we are going to protect fish 100% then everyone would have to stop eating fish -

Heh... Ya know, I have to add something. With all the talk of not killing the fish through fishing and spearing, etc., my community (and all the surrounding) have managed to find a way to still annihilate thousands of square miles of fish.

Read more here: http://research.myfwc.com/features/view_article.asp?id=9670

At the moment it doesn't matter if you fish anyway, the fish are basically all gone anyway. From the beach to upwards of 20 miles out... possibly even more, I just haven't seen reports from much more than 20.

 

[Kim]

Wow Colin - I'd seen you guys talk about that stuff in your forum but I didn't really know what it was. Any idea what the cause is? You say 'your community' - is this caused by people?

 

[Wayward Son]

There is reason to think that this is caused by discharge from processes on land. People are looking at this trying to figure out what the true problem is, but it does seem to be a massive amount of dicharges that end up in the gulf.

You may want to read these:

http://www.spearboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22404

http://www.spearboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22305

 

[Kim]

I'll check those out. I did a search on Google for some information. It seems that it's been around since 1500 blooming occasionally and causing the same kind of thing that's happening now. There wouldn't have been any processes on land then I suppose so I'm curious now. As you say - no-one that I have found yet knows exactly what is going on. Of course discharges from us definitely don't help the marine environment. That's true in quite a lot of places.
In any event - bad news.

 

[Wayward Son]

Yes, a red tide is an old thing, been around forever. What is happening now in that area does not appear to simply be a red tide phenomena. I don't know if Ray is correct in his suspiscions, but I have the feeling that he's prolly not entirely wrong.

 

[Kim]

Well there seemed to be quite a lot of stuff that came up with my search that I didn't have time to read yet - I'll get round to that tomorrow. I would have to agree though that if Ray's hydrometer readings are accurate (which I presume they are) it would suggest more than one thing going on here. Still - I only heard about this today so am in no position to form any conclusions yet. Maybe this particular discussion should have it's own thread in this forum and some of our marine biologists might like to comment. It certainly seems like something to be concerned about.

 

[Rick Murchison]

If we could solve the problem with the world's commercial fishing industry, any kind of recreational fishing would be insignificant.

"The problem" is that too many fish are being killed for the ocean to replenish the supply.
Why? Because it is profitable.
Why? Because people eat fish and are willing to pay enough for them to cover the costs of harvesting them.
So ultimately the problem is a supply and demand problem. Left alone, it will fix itself as fish stocks are depleted to the point that it costs more to harvest what's left than people are willing to pay. But that's a terrible, unacceptable way to "fix" the problem.
Can it be "fixed" without depleting the oceans? Yes... But the solution isn't in "educating" or "regulating" the commercial fishing industry. In the real world of national interests and sovereignty *someone* will always ignore any international agreements and become the raper of the seas so long as there's money to be made by doing it. The solution is in making current commercial fishing practices less attractive than doing other things - by making it a money-losing proposition.
To get to the details takes too long, but to KISS, "the solution" is in the expansion of commercial fish farming of high quality popular food species to the point that it is cheaper to harvest farmed fish commercially, and cheaper to the consumer to buy farmed fish than it is to get them from the ocean. This will drive demand for wild fish down and prices for wild fish down to the point that commercial success just isn't possible by fishing the oceans; commercial fishing will become all but extinct.
Rick

 

[drdiver1952]

"To get to the details takes too long, but to KISS, "the solution" is in the expansion of commercial fish farming of high quality popular food species to the point that it is cheaper to harvest farmed fish commercially, and cheaper to the consumer to buy farmed fish than it is to get them from the ocean. This will drive demand for wild fish down and prices for wild fish down to the point that commercial success just isn't possible by fishing the oceans; commercial fishing will become all but extinct.
Rick

Very well said, farming is the only viable solution to the problem on the horizon.