Manufacturer condones Warsaw Grouper slaughter

[ReefGuy]

This was taken from spearboard.com, and demonstrates some of the methods used to put the fish on your table (not mine). Also realize that the line of fish in the one picture is likely miles long. Do you think that only fish of legal species and sizes bite on these lines? I'm looking for a picture I've seen of a loggerhead turtle with one of these lines in his mouth. I'll post it if I can find it.

It should be noted that these people, the very ones you condemn, are giving their time, money, and hearts to clean up an industry filled with waste and outright destruction. Actually doing what you're complaining about, and investing themselves in the result.

Can you say the same? What's your real investment in this issue? Anything?

Although the commercial longline fishery has been touted as a clean, low impact fishing practice, some longline fishermen and biologists have expressed concern regarding the use of a mechanical hook removal component called the “crucifier”. This device usually consists of two parallel steel cylinders placed vertically on the gunwale. The longline passes through the freely rotating cylinders during the haul back of gear. Unwanted fish are removed from the gear by laying a gaff handle across the rollers, which “snub” them from the hook. That is, the fish are blocked and the hooks are pulled out of them by the action of the hydraulic hauler. These fish fall directly back into the ocean. Injuries can range from superficial to the entire jaw being ripped out from one side (Farrington et al., 1998). The injury, if significant, has been shown to diminish the 72 hour survival of the juvenile cod bycatch (Farrington et al., 1998).

 

[Mike Veitch]

Although the commercial longline fishery has been touted as a clean, low impact fishing practice...

Eh? HOgwash!

Edit: That first line was supposed to be in quotes...

Although i understand what Peter is trying to say, i also believe he is targeting the wrong folks. I am against commercial fishing as an enterprise, and the wasteful byproduct is sickening. And for the record no, i don't eat seafood.

HOwever, i have no problem with spearfishermen whatsoever. Its a kill what you eat practice and no bycatch. In my opinion, the best way to catch fish and if i ate fish that is what i would do...
In fact spearfishing is a way of life out here, that is the only way people get fresh meat...

 

[CBulla]

If I can get my buddy to digitize his video of his long-line experience I'll host and post it. The syopsis bio and video is this: my buddy does videography for National Geographic (5 mile deep explorations in the Cenotes and such) and one day decided he needed to document long-lining. So he made arrangements, tied himself to a line and went overboard with the hooks and bait. He didn't stay down to long, in his words "it just got to scarey under there with all the sharks taking whatever was on the line" so he spent most of the rest of the night on the surface floating trying not to think of the insane carnage occuring under him. Thats the most he'll say of the experience.

Back to the spearing bit. Peter, let me ask you this. Did you read the bit about the dive being 425' deep? This isn't their first dive that deep to spear. It also doesn't happen every other weekend as its not cheap to prepare for a dive like that. There is also an incredible amount of planning as they were not diving a single AL80 and screaming "yahoooo" as they fell off the boat in a haphazard fashion.

The site that ReefGuy mentioned above is where the original story is posted as (pic and story on pages 1, 7, and 9) and is titled "Do I Shoot or Do I Run?" I would suggest not making any comments there... the folks are a very friendly, tight knit community who have no problem telling anyone who condones their sport exactly what they think and where it can be stuck before banning the IP range from further access.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The reaction to my OP may lead you into thinking that the majority of scuba divers are pro-spearfishing. I think that you'll find the opposite to be the case, at least outside of the US.

I think that you will find the majority of divers now subscribe to the "take only your memories, leave only your bubbles" approach ... I do eat fish (but have trained my cook to buy only species that, to the best of my knowledge, are from sustainable stocks).

THIS IS MY MAIN POINT: set a good example in marine conservation

Regards
Peter

Your logic escapes me... Do you not understand that every method of taking fish other than spearfishing has bycatch? Do you not understand that training your cook to "buy only species that ... are from sustainable stocks" assures absolutely nothing with reference to other species caught and killed in the operation unless the method was spearfishing?
Spearfishing as the method of harvesting members of "sustainable stocks" is setting the very best example in marine conservation. Better than long lining, better than netting, better than hook & line, better than any other method of commercial gathering.
If you want to attack this specific expedition, have at it. Whether the specific population from which this particular fish was taken is "sustainable" or not may be a point of debate... from what I have read of the site, the preparation, observation, and decision to go after this fish I believe it was a good shoot, and the population will sustain it.
If you want to relieve pressure on fish populations in general,
(1) promote fish farming
(2) promote spearfishing over other methods of gathering wild species
(3) continue to promote the eating of only "sustainable stocks."
Rick

 

[ReefGuy]

Here's some more pictures of the methods used to bring the fish to your table. The last picture is of SHRIMP bycatch. How many of those fish do you think were living an hour after this picture was taken?

How much of this kind of destruction do you think happens when spearing?

Edit: Man, must have forgotten to download the picture of albatrosses (dead) lined up on the deck of a commercial fishing boat. I'll find it if anyone really wants to see it.

 

[Wayward Son]

This is a big part of the problem: Either simply not knowing the facts of the fishing industry, or being misinformed.

Commercial fishing methods are indiscriminant killers. They go after grouper, for example, and end up killing tons of illegal grouper (too small), sharks, trutles, birds, etc, ie, wromg species, and so on. Shrimp boats catch the tasty critters with nets, and for each pound of shrimp something like 10 pounds of fish are killed. Fish that are not used.

So, when you go to the store, or send your cook for you with instructions to buy just the right fish, be advised that the single fish you're buying in fact represents many other fish that were killed & wasted. At best they may have been used for bait.

Worrying about spearfishing as it concerns threats to the fishery is equivalent to worrying about a mouse when an elephant is about to run you over. There are many, far larger problems that need to be addressed before the impact of spear fishing can be considered to amount to more than a fart in a whirlwind.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Worrying about spearfishing as it concerns threats to the fishery is equivalent to worrying about a mouse when an elephant is about to run you over. There are many, far larger problems that need to be addressed before the impact of spear fishing can be considered to amount to more than a fart in a whirlwind.

I have to bring this up, (and I know Wayward Son already knows and appreciates this, so I'm not slamming him ) because the perception that spearfishing is a miniscule part of "the problem" is just as much a misperception as the perception that it's not - because "it depends."
Two species come to mind... the Jewfish in the Gulf of Mexico and the Giant Seabass on the California coast. We (spearfishermen) nearly wiped out both species in our ignorant assumption that the ocean was "limitless" in its ability to provide. We are (hopefully) wiser now.
So, even though spearfishing is by far the most efficient way to harvest fish, we do need to understand that we are not just a "fart in a whirlwind." We can, indeed, be the problem for some species, and we need to know what we're about in our target selections.
Rick

 

[Wayward Son]

Yep, I have to agree that this can be a species specific problem. The warsaw does not seem to me to be one of them. From what I understand it is primarliy a deep water fish, deeper than most divers will ever venture.

The jewfish incomparison is found in fairly shallow water, we see them often on sites only 60 to 70 feet deep. Easily accessable by spear fishermen & from what I've seen they lack the spookiness that gags have.

If the warsaws were commonly found in the same depths, I could see where spearing them could be a real problem.

From what I have seen, such species easily threatened by spearing seem to be the exception, at least here in the gulf. Possibly in other areas different species could also be as susceptible.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Funny how so many outside of the US worry about what we do here without concerning themselve what goes on in their own backyards.

Right Peter? Should we start a thread of sins from your homeland?

 

[chip104]

Should we start a thread of sins from your homeland?

Go ahead. People outside the SE Asias should put more pressure on the illegal fishing that goes on around here. Start a thread, post pics of blast fishing, etc. then maybe we can all begin writing letters to the local governments around here to begin investing more in their coastal security (and don't forget to include a paragraph on the benefits of spearfishing!).

There's a saying here: a marine protected area is only established with a rifle.


edit: actually, maybe write letters to the local newspapers. That may be more effective.