Master Scuba Diver...WooHoooo

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Congrats to Parrothead on a job well done!

I'm planning on getting my PADI MSD rating next year in Belize, where I'll do the Rescue class and a couple of specialty courses while on vacation. Should be fun. Will I truly be a "master" scuba diver? Well, only in the sense that I was an "advanced" scuba diver after I took that course a few years ago. In other words, nope. But I've certainly enjoyed the ride, and if I pick up a few cards along the way that's cool, too.

Thalassamania, lighten up a little already. Obviously for you scuba is a serious business, but there's plenty of room for those of us who just want to have fun, and, while we're at it, become better divers along the way.
 
Thalassamania, lighten up a little already. Obviously for you scuba is a serious business, but there's plenty of room for those of us who just want to have fun, and, while we're at it, become better divers along the way.
If you had worked hard to design and put into place the premier program in your industry and someone had come along, taken the name, provided no comparable content but continuously implied that courses with the same name were basically the same thing, would you lighten up? How does PADI Master Diver make you a better diver along the way? The answer is that it doesn't, all it does is lighten your wallet.
 
"The NAUI Master Scuba Diver course is generally regarded to be the most rigorous of the major North American diver training organizations, and is the only one which requires classroom training. A NAUI Master Scuba Diver must have demonstrated the knowledge and skill level expected of a NAUI Instructor except for the teaching and student supervision material. The NAUI Master Scuba Diver course involves training in:
* Emergency procedures and rescue
* Deep/simulated decompression diving
* Limited visibility or night diving
* Underwater navigation
* Search and recovery – light salvage
* 5 further elective specialties"

Master Scuba Diver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
And that's been dumbed down from what it originally was (now, I believe, called Gold Master Scuba Diver), but I suppose that's because less is also expected today of NAUI Instructors and DMs.

Actually when that was done, back in the mid 1990s Bret Gillam (NAUI BOD) observed that the change was made because the PADI names were the ones more commonly used and that the NAUI ones were being compared to those. That meant that to become a NAUI Advanced Diver required one more course and a whole lot more work than it did to become a PADI Advanced Diver, who was actually equivalent (in terms of skills and experience) to a NAUI Open Water II Diver, (similar situation for NAUI Master Diver). Boats wanted you to have an advanced card to take a trip and PADI facilities were advertising how much easier it was to get their card ... without (of course) ever mentioning the difference in the programs. That was when I lost respect for PADI.
 
Maybe not in so many words, but like Thal I infer it from a number of posts (some in this very thread).

I see your point -- I guess you're right that some feel the 2 MSDs are very similar. It's hard to believe since the differences have been listed and pointed out forever on SB. I guess some people still don't see it.
 
First of all, congrats to the OP for the accomplishment.

Next, in relation to the following
<snip>PADI Master Divers equivalence more closely to NAUI Advanced Divers. NAUI Master Divers are expected to be at the skill and knowledge level of NAUI Instructors. Very few PADI Master Divers (or for that matter NAUI Advanced divers) are prepared to attempt a NAUI Master Diver course, it's just not the same thing.
I agree that the NAUI MSD cert and the PADI MSD cert are very different, but the above is an oversimplification that I believe gives a false impression. I base my objection partly on personal experience and partly on NAUI's published course requirements. I realize that NAUI instructors are permitted and even encouraged to beef up the curriculum and add dives to the minimums published by NAUI, but they are not compelled to do so. The effect of this is that a NAUI course offered by a particular instructor may not actually follow the same curriculum as the "same" course given by a different instructor. Therefore, the only real way to compare PADI MSD and NAUI MSD certs is to look at what each requires at minimum, not at what each "might" include when under the direction of a superlative instructor.

I earned the NAUI Advanced cert, and it is nothing at all like the PADI MSD. In fact, it's very similar to the PADI Advanced cert. So the assertion that PADI MSD is equivalent to NAUI Advanced is quite simply untrue.

In terms of comparing the NAUI Master Diver cert and the PADI MSD cert, it's not clear cut. NAUI's cert appears to be more demanding than the PADI cert in some ways and less in others, based on the published course requirements available online from the NAUI website. If a current NAUI instructor can demonstrate that the published information is incomplete, perhaps we can make a more informed comparison.
  • The overt theoretical knowledge required of the NAUI MSD cert is more explicit than for the PADI MSD cert, which requires no written tests beyond those required for particular specialties and for Rescue Diver.
  • For NAUI, some Rescue Diver information is folded in to the course with classwork and a single required dive, whereas for PADI it's a separate required course which takes several days to complete and includes a written test. (NAUI does have a Rescue cert, but it's a specialty and is not a listed requirement for the MSD program.)
  • The PADI program requires CPR + First Aid training since that in itself is a pre-req for Rescue; no such requirement is listed for the NAUI cert.
  • The NAUI cert is more strict with the obligatory dive skills, which include additional work on nav and low viz diving plus search and recovery and introduction to deco diving, as well as the emergency/rescue dive. The PADI cert allows the divers to select which specialties will meet their particular interest, even if these specialties are not specifically designed to enhance dive skills such as navigation.
  • The NAUI cert is less rigorous in terms of the number of dives required to achieve the status. PADI requires a minimum of 50 dives. For NAUI's MSD, the minimum number of training dives is 8 (and one of the eight can be a skin dive). To earn the cert with NAUI, a diver could have as few as 18 scuba dives + 1 skin dive.
In sum, a diver is able to earn the NAUI MSD with a few dives and a lot of study/written testing on theory. To earn the PADI cert, a diver needs a lot of dives and far less study/written testing on theory.

I am not offering an opinion for or against either approach. They are different, and the differences simply cannot be reduced to blanket assertions comparing various ratings between different agencies.
 
I guess some people still don't see it.

I think that's the point :wink:

Of course, neither agencies consider me a master diver, so take my opinion for what it's worth...
 
If you had worked hard to design and put into place the premier program in your industry and someone had come along, taken the name, provided no comparable content but continuously implied that courses with the same name were basically the same thing, would you lighten up? How does PADI Master Diver make you a better diver along the way? The answer is that it doesn't, all it does is lighten your wallet.

Oh, come on. It makes you a better diver by requiring you to take a number of classes and do a number of supervised dives to demonstrate minimum proficiency in those subjects in order to qualify for the rating. How can that do anything but make you a better diver?

If PADI is "continuously implying" that their MSD certificate is the same as NAUI's--I've never heard that before but then again it's not as if I pay much attention to any PADI vs the other agency debates--then shame on PADI.

And how you got screwed would make for an interesting story--I'm dead serious--in a different thread. But can't you find it in your heart to be gracious and congratulate the OP on his achievement even if in your mind it's not much of an achievement? Why hold what PADI did to you against him? Show some class.

And go post that story. :D
 
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"The NAUI Master Scuba Diver course is generally regarded to be the most rigorous of the major North American diver training organizations, and is the only one which requires classroom training. A NAUI Master Scuba Diver must have demonstrated the knowledge and skill level expected of a NAUI Instructor except for the teaching and student supervision material. The NAUI Master Scuba Diver course involves training in:
* Emergency procedures and rescue
* Deep/simulated decompression diving
* Limited visibility or night diving
* Underwater navigation
* Search and recovery &#8211; light salvage
* 5 further elective specialties"

Master Scuba Diver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And that's been dumbed down from what it originally was (now, I believe, called Gold Master Scuba Diver), but I suppose that's because less is also expected today of NAUI Instructors and DMs.

Actually when that was done, back in the mid 1990s Bret Gillam (NAUI BOD) observed that the change was made because the PADI names were the ones more commonly used and that the NAUI ones were being compared to those. That meant that to become a NAUI Advanced Diver required one more course and a whole lot more work than it did to become a PADI Advanced Diver, who was actually equivalent (in terms of skills and experience) to a NAUI Open Water II Diver, (similar situation for NAUI Master Diver). Boats wanted you to have an advanced card to take a trip and PADI facilities were advertising how much easier it was to get their card ... without (of course) ever mentioning the difference in the programs. That was when I lost respect for PADI.

So who cares???? This has been pointed out by many people, many times, in many forums and many threads. This is a thread about someone who has done something commendable in their eyes and in other people's opinion. For you to come in here for the thousandth time to wine, stamp your feet and spit your dummy out of the pram, it only makes you look like, well, just like that. There is currently another thread discussing this exact topic in a proper place for it. Why not go there and spew all you want. Sheesh!
 
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