Naive - Difference between DIR & hogarthian?

[SoCalAngel]

Ok, I am blond... a woman, so get over that issue. :gorgeous: I also don't like to research (the blond in me) when I can ask a question that will start all sorts of trouble (the female in me). *batting eyelashes*

I understand (and agree with) some DIR stuff. I don't know much at all about hogarthian stuff. I am thinking of going in the GUE/DIR for some tech training, as I want to do deco diving and extended range stuff.

I have been looking into getting a new BC- backplate w/wing style. I was thinkingof one made by Deep Sea Supply. I was a told that if I want to go DIR, don't get it, because it is more hogarthian. So (blond again) what is that? And what is the big deal? :scubadive:

Please, understand, I am trying to start a (what will be a "spark-filled") conversation, but not trying to be a troll.

 

[grazie42]

The easiest way to explain it would be something like this:
(disclaimer: I´m not a DIR/gue diver but the following shouldn´t produce to many sparks)
product/setup/teqnique x can be both hogarthian and DIR.
product/setup/teqnique x can be neither hogarthian nor DIR.
product/setup/teqnique x can be hogarthian but not DIR.
product/setup/teqnique x can be DIR but not hogarthian.

If you´re going to take a DIR-course the latter cases become VERY important (as I understand it...), if not...then (and this may be a small spark producer) common (or perhaps not so common sense) will be enough to guide you to the right gear, course and instructor...

A note of caution: When a salesperson says that "product/setup/teqnique x" is hogarthian but not DIR it may be an indication that what he´s selling looks "techish" but really isn´t...of course he may just be trying to sell a perfectly decent bungeed wing

 

[diverbrian]

Laurel,

If you check further, you will find a separate forum here for hogarthian and DIR. The reason is that DIR really has a short answer for everything. That form of diving is a more-disciplined subset of Hogarthian diving which is basically just a minimalist form of diving.

For instance, Hogarthian diving involves a backplate and wing combo. William Hogarth Main wasn't into telling people the "perfect" rig. Hogarthian is more just taking only that which is useful to the dive mission and using only the redundancy required.

DIR works by stating that everyone must have everything on their rig the same as their teammates (except size). I don't have a problem with this to some extent. Everybody on a DIR knows where everything is on their teammates rig by instinct.

Hogarthian basically says minimalist and put it where it works for you. It encourages a degree of experimentation to find the best rig. I prefer this attitude, but some would disagree with me.

So, something can be Hogarthian, but not DIR. It can't be DIR, but not Hogarthian.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The therm "Hogarthian" has to do with gear selection and configuration. The DIR gear configuration falls within the generally accepted bounds of Hogarthian gear selection & configuration principles, but is more narrowly defined.
"DIR" also includes everything else about diving, from diet to color coordination to thought processes, planning, execution and debriefing of the dive - to the true believer it is a whole lifestyle. It's one of those "the One Way" holistic approaches to a sport; it's advocates believe all other ways of diving are not "Doing it Right."
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

So, something can be Hogarthian, but not DIR. It can't be DIR, but not Hogarthian.

If you're talking about gear selection and configuration, true. But the bulk of "DIR" has to do with other stuff, and is totally outside the bounds of "Hogarthian."
Rick

 

[cornfed]

I have been looking into getting a new BC- backplate w/wing style. I was thinkingof one made by Deep Sea Supply. I was a told that if I want to go DIR, don't get it, because it is more hogarthian. So (blond again) what is that? And what is the big deal?

If it's the setup I'm think of, eg like Dive Rite's Transplate, it has quick release buckles and a chest strap. This poor horse has been beaten into a pulp but quick releases aren't DIR because they can break and neither is a chest strap because it can restrict your chest and you just don't need it. Whether these are issues you need to worry about is another topic all together.

 

[diverbrian]

If you're talking about gear selection and configuration, true. But the bulk of "DIR" has to do with other stuff, and is totally outside the bounds of "Hogarthian."
Rick

The orginal post WAS mainly about gear selection and configuration. (ie. how could she buy gear that was listed a hogarthian, but not DIR) But, you are correct in the literal terms.

 

[Epinephelus]

For instance, Hogarthian diving involves a backplate and wing combo.

Hmmm.... when I started following Bill Main's ideas, about the time "Hogarthian" hit the streets and well before doing it right was hijacked and coined as one group's way of doing things (DIR), we managed to adapt the principles into jacket style BC's quite well, thank you.
In fact, reviewing my notes I see lots of things about minimalization, streamlining, redundancy & such, but backplates only mentioned in the context of an example.
E

 

[drbill]

So according to this, I was Hogarthian when I started diving based on my minimalist equipment configuration since all the bells and whistles like BCD's, SPG's, computers, etc., weren't available at the time?

Dr. Bill

 

[The Kraken]

Does that mean that back in '69 when I learned to dive I was diving Hogarthian?