Need BP Boyancy/Trim Advise

[FrankT]

I am trying to figure out a configuration to order for my BP and Wing, and I need the advice from some of you more experienced divers using BP and wings.

First some basics info:

I have been using the dive shops Dive Rite aluminum BP, with a Venture Wing, plastic STA, Luxfer AL80, with a Dive Rite Transweight System mounted under the lower tank strap.

I weight 275#, and have been wearing a 2mm shorty.

With 500# in the tank, and in fresh water I am neutral with 14# of lead in the Transweight.

I just ordered a 3mm jumpsuit and for the time being, I will be diving singles in both fresh, and salt water, although will be using a 7mm jumpsuit in freshwater ONLY, on occasion.

So the question is...since I will most likely will need about 24# with the 3mm in salt water, should I order a Heavy BP and weighted STA from someone like FredT, and then add a P-weight for the extra weight needed in salt water or when diving the 7mm suit in fresh water, and use minimal weights for ditchable and trim.

OR

Get a more "normal" weight Stainless Back Plate, and use something like the Halcyon ACB on the belt, and possibly add a P-Weight for when in salt water.

I will be traveling with this BP but if the heavier configuration works better, I'm not afraid to drag the extra weight along.

Is it possible to get "to much" weight in the plate and turn turtle?

Thanks in Advance

Frank

 

[OE2X]

I am trying to figure out a configuration to order for my BP and Wing, and I need the advice from some of you more experienced divers using BP and wings.

First some basics info:

I have been using the dive shops Dive Rite aluminum BP, with a Venture Wing, plastic STA, Luxfer AL80, with a Dive Rite Transweight System mounted under the lower tank strap.

I weight 275#, and have been wearing a 2mm shorty.

With 500# in the tank, and in fresh water I am neutral with 14# of lead in the Transweight.

I just ordered a 3mm jumpsuit and for the time being, I will be diving singles in both fresh, and salt water, although will be using a 7mm jumpsuit in freshwater ONLY, on occasion.

So the question is...since I will most likely will need about 24# with the 3mm in salt water, should I order a Heavy BP and weighted STA from someone like FredT, and then add a P-weight for the extra weight needed in salt water or when diving the 7mm suit in fresh water, and use minimal weights for ditchable and trim.

OR

Get a more "normal" weight Stainless Back Plate, and use something like the Halcyon ACB on the belt, and possibly add a P-Weight for when in salt water.

I will be traveling with this BP but if the heavier configuration works better, I'm not afraid to drag the extra weight along.

Is it possible to get "to much" weight in the plate and turn turtle?

Thanks in Advance

Frank

I dive dry with 24# in salt water. I just recently bought a new wing and have put it on a Koplin 10# BP with a 6# STA. I put the other 8# in a weightbelt. I like to keep only enough weight as ditchable so that I can swim up with a full tank and gear. I'm using PST's 130s and 119s so they have very different bouyancy characteristics vs an AL-80.

To answer your question about turtleing - it doesn't happen with this configuration. I can just as easily swim on my side as I can horizontally. With my Ranger I found that it would turtle most of the time. At this point I only have six dives with this set up and the only issue is finding my balance point - I tend to be head down too much. Other than that it is far more comfortable to have as much weight spread out evenly on my back.

One other thing to keep in mind is that when I went from the Ranger to this system I dropped about 25% of my weight. You should be able drop weight as well.

 

[bcsean]

I'm diving a FredT 7lb XL BP, 5lb STA, and currently using a 7lb P-weight. I am using an AL 80 with 10lbs on hips. I recently bought E7-120's and plan to ditch the p-weight and use these tanks.

I was head down a bit with the p-weight and AL-80 and am hoping the change to the E7-120 will remedy this.

I wouldn't personally go with the ACB pockets. There is no issue wearing a few pounds on a weight belt, and it's way cheaper.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Is it possible to get "to much" weight in the plate and turn turtle?

Thanks in Advance

Frank

Yes.

And the solution is NOT to pile weight on a weight belt.
The first fix is to switch to a lighter plate then determine if your trim has been corrected.

Additionally, you might find that a steel BP 'works' for some tanks but not others. I can use a steel BP with an LP104 but if I use the steel BP with a HP80 the trim is all screwed up. So,
I switch to an AL bp with the HP80s.

Like the DIR guys say, it's a system, not a collection of independant and unrelated pieces. Changing a piece of the system might have a dramatic ripple effect.

 

[ABQdiver]

To answer your question about turtleing - it doesn't happen with this configuration. I can just as easily swim on my side as I can horizontally. With my Ranger I found that it would turtle most of the time. At this point I only have six dives with this set up and the only issue is finding my balance point - I tend to be head down too much. Other than that it is far more comfortable to have as much weight spread out evenly on my back.

One other thing to keep in mind is that when I went from the Ranger to this system I dropped about 25% of my weight. You should be able drop weight as well.

Boy does THAT sound familar!! I too went from a Ranger (still use it for classes) and a SS BP and OxyCheq wing. I only dive with a SS backplate or a soft backplate when using the wing. With the SS 6# plate and a full 3m jumpsuit I use nothing in fresh water and 4# in salt. Diving a drysuit I have a heavy STA that I subsitute on the BP instead of the standard STA. The trim using a BP& Wings are excellent and the ability to change your position in the water column is very easy and natural.

my 2 cents...

 

[RiverRat]

Yes.

And the solution is NOT to pile weight on a weight belt.
The first fix is to switch to a lighter plate then determine if your trim has been corrected.Additionally, you might find that a steel BP 'works' for some tanks but not others. I can use a steel BP with an LP104 but if I use the steel BP with a HP80 the trim is all screwed up. So,
I switch to an AL bp with the HP80s.
Like the DIR guys say, it's a system, not a collection of independant and unrelated pieces. Changing a piece of the system might have a dramatic ripple effect.

I had some questions on turtleing but this thread seems to be on topic so I'm going to post my recent observations. I got spoiled on my first salt water dives in my new FredT BP/Oxycheq wing setup. I was using Fred's 9# BP, 2# STA's, 3# on my belt and resort AL80. Trim was dead on. I could do a barrell roll. Totally awesome dives.
I did some recent freshwater dives in 7mm, 3# on belt, same BP/W setup but diving PST E-7 100's. Boy was I knocked back to reality. My first dive sucked because I had my tank jacked up too high and was overweighted. These were shallow dives just for the purpose of testing new gear/config so no biggie. Anyway, when I got my weight to where it should be and my tank moved down I reduced the turtleing big time. I guessing that the extra buoyancy in the 7mm helped to "push up" my legs while the extra weight of the steel tank "pushed down" at the top end. I've got to get in a few more dives to see if I still turtle.
My real concern now is diving the same setup I did in salt, 3mm shortie (maybe full), same BP/W but with steel tank and no weight on the belt. I'm guessing I'll be about 1# heavy in salt using the formula of subtracting 4# for the steel tank. I really don't want to turtle as these will be my first wreck dives in NC. I suppose I'll dive this setup in freshwater and see if I turtle. I'll be obviously overweighted but still may give me some idea.
Maybe an Aluminum backplate is in order for saltwater with the steels?

 

[ElectricZombie]

This is what I would do:

Get a SS BP - 6lbs
Use a SS single tank adapter - 2lbs - 5lbs
Lose the Transweight system thing
Use a regular weight belt...don't use the ACB's or anything similiar.

You will likely find that with the added weight of a SS BP and the SS STA, you will need to add less weight that you may think. The BP is unique in that it allows the weight to be distributed across your back where it will be most beneficial. If you need to add additional weight, I would go with a standard weight belt. It it looks like you will need to wear more than 10lbs on your weight belt, I would look into getting a V-weight from Halcyon. My suggestion is to get a tank with 500 psi in it and experiment with the SS BP and SS STA and a weightbelt. See how that goes before ordering anything else.

 

[RiverRat]

This is what I would do:

Get a SS BP - 6lbs
Use a SS single tank adapter - 2lbs - 5lbs
Lose the Transweight system thing
Use a regular weight belt...don't use the ACB's or anything similiar.

You will likely find that with the added weight of a SS BP and the SS STA, you will need to add less weight that you may think. The BP is unique in that it allows the weight to be distributed across your back where it will be most beneficial. If you need to add additional weight, I would go with a standard weight belt. It it looks like you will need to wear more than 10lbs on your weight belt, I would look into getting a V-weight from Halcyon. My suggestion is to get a tank with 500 psi in it and experiment with the SS BP and SS STA and a weightbelt. See how that goes before ordering anything else.

I was thinking about a 6# SS BP as well. Keep in mind I was at 3# on the belt, I only use a regular belt by the way. Now that I went to steel the lighter BP may offset that and I can still have a 2 or 3 pounder or so on my belt. I have a 10# P-weight for my plate but I won't need that until I go dry I think. The V-weight is for doubles, I'm still diving singles.
My concern is basically with trim, by "adding" the steel tank and what that might do. I've already seen what it can do when I'm in my 7mm. I may dive the 3mm shallow in freshwater and being that I'll be overweighted in fresh if I don't turtle then I may not have an issue in salt.
Thanks for the input.