DIR- GUE New GUE Project Diver (Level 3) Program

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The part about having a program that legitimizes in the eyes of government institutions like NOAA makes absolute sense. That will lead to GUE being invited to participate/assist in other projects throughout the world is a realistic strategy.

I suspect however that by the time this program takes off, photogammetry will be dying. I'm assuming however that GUE HQ is looking at next gen technology (close up 3D high resolution LiDAR).

 

[ginti]

The part about having a program that legitimizes in the eyes of government institutions like NOAA makes absolute sense. That will lead to GUE being invited to participate/assist in other projects throughout the world is a realistic strategy.

I suspect however that by the time this program takes off, photogammetry will be dying. I'm assuming however that GUE HQ is looking at next gen technology (close up 3D high resolution LiDAR).

When I studied it at university, LiDAR and photogrammetry were not competitors. At that time (5 years ago), lasers were the way to go with highly reflective surfaces, while photogrammetry in the other cases. I suspect the situation is the same now, and I would be surprised to see photogrammetry dying as a technology for underwater 3D modelling. Why do you think it will pass?

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

Seems a little card-collecty for me.

If you already have all those skills, you don’t need a card to confirm it. If you’re one of those people, it is known.

Practice what you preach or change your speech.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Why do you think it will pass?

Because close up 3D LiDAR is about to become far more cost effective and logistically simpler. No more submarines required. So instead of a research vessel, I could use my 5 meter ski boat for scanning a wreck in a few hours that gives gigabytes of data. We are talking about resolution at below 1 mm.

With a BlueROV2, total expenditure is expected to be around 60.000 Euros. Price will go up if you want an ROV that goes deeper than 100 meters.

I've been working on this project for almost 4 years. COVID has caused some real problems to get product released.

May 2023 we sail.

 

[crofrog]

Because close up 3D LiDAR is about to become far more cost effective and logistically simpler. No more submarines required. So instead of a research vessel, I could use my 5 meter ski boat for scanning a wreck in a few hours that gives gigabytes of data. We are talking about resolution at below 1 mm.

With a BlueROV2, total expenditure is expected to be around 60.000 Euros. Price will go up if you want an ROV that goes deeper than 100 meters.

I've been working on this project for almost 4 years. COVID has caused some real problems to get product released.

May 2023 we sail.

The question is, is photogrammetry good enough when it comes to the cost performance trade off. I suspect for a lot of the applications it is

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The question is, is photogrammetry good enough when it comes to the cost performance trade off. I suspect for a lot of the applications it is

Archaeology is heavily dependent on photogrammetry today. To use close up 3D LiDAR today, you need a budget like NOAA. Had Paul Allen lived longer, I'm sure he'd have used it, but it really matured in 2019.

A one time purchase of 60.000 Euros that enables a shipwreck to be scanned in 4 hours or less (there's always prep work for scanning). So let's just give it a week. Compare that to the Mentor, Elgin's ship that transported the antiquities he stole from Greece. That took 10 summers (May through October is the season) which did include excavation. So on the conservative side, imagine if such a wreck were studied and excavated in a summer. And with a much more accurate and detailed model.

I expect all universities and maritime archeological institutions to adopt this technology in the coming decade or so.

Photogrammetry will be relegated to amateur enthusiasts.

I expect GUE to assisting universities and institutions. You need either a high end ROV which isn't cheap or divers for some work. In the Aegean, the wrecks below 60 meters haven't been touched by looters or fishing nets. Those will need divers. But not for photogrammetry.

 

[ginti]

Archaeology is heavily dependent on photogrammetry today. To use close up 3D LiDAR today, you need a budget like NOAA. Had Paul Allen lived longer, I'm sure he'd have used it, but it really matured in 2019.

A one time purchase of 60.000 Euros that enables a shipwreck to be scanned in 4 hours or less (there's always prep work for scanning). So let's just give it a week. Compare that to the Mentor, Elgin's ship that transported the antiquities he stole from Greece. That took 10 summers (May through October is the season) which did include excavation. So on the conservative side, imagine if such a wreck were studied and excavated in a summer. And with a much more accurate and detailed model.

I expect all universities and maritime archeological institutions to adopt this technology in the coming decade or so.

Photogrammetry will be relegated to amateur enthusiasts.

My point is another one: is laser scanning actually possible, accurate and precise (enough) underwater?

I expect GUE to assisting universities and institutions. You need either a high end ROV which isn't cheap or divers for some work. In the Aegean, the wrecks below 60 meters haven't been touched by looters or fishing nets. Those will need divers. But not for photogrammetry.

We are already doing it, but for photogrammetry. I may ask some of my friends this summer about Laser for archaeology.

Anyway, it would be VERY interesting if you could make a new thread about it. I am thinking of a post describing the technology, its pros, its cons, and giving some scientific references. Yes, I know it's a lot of work, so it's totally ok if you can't do it

 

[Compressor]

Practice what you preach or change your speech.

Please be respectful of other opinions.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My point is another one: is laser scanning actually possible, accurate and precise (enough) underwater?

See this video and you tell me. This is with older technology and was done rather quickly with one pass over one axis. Go to two axis and the quality goes way up. Hopefully Google doesn't make me approve you accessing as I tried to make it viewable by anyone with the link:

We are already doing it, but for photogrammetry. I may ask some of my friends this summer about Laser for archaeology.

They probably won't know as it is too expensive. You have to be careful about the term "laser" as it includes a number of technologies. I had Dr. Brendan Foley try to correct me on a post, and I went back to our laser scanning expert to clarify. He stated:

To address why not just use current tech? There are really two options. The "money is no object, let's hire NOAA to survey our site" or the "we have low-res SONAR and photos". We are filling the void between those two. When marketing and promoting we need to be specific about what we are doing. Just saying "scanning" is not specific enough. People lump SONAR, RADAR, photogrammetry, and LiDAR all together. And all of these have been used underwater in one way or another. We are doing close-range, high detail, dynamic 3D LiDAR specifically for archaeology (site condition, site surveying, excavation planning, educational materials, virtual tours, safety plans, etc.).

You may want to follow our page on FB: Hellenic Archaeological Exploration Society. It is rather vague right now. I've already began discussions with the Greek government archaeologists (Ephorate of Underwater Antiquities) as well as another archaeologist who will direct the project. Once a full plan is agreed upon, then I can share more.

Anyway, it would be VERY interesting if you could make a new thread about it. I am thinking of a post describing the technology, its pros, its cons, and giving some scientific references. Yes, I know it's a lot of work, so it's totally ok if you can't do it

Will do. Hopefully in late September when I get back from France the laser scanning expert will have a BlueROV2 with the first laser scanner off the assembly line (we are first in line as the project we are doing is the best marketing the company could wish for). Once we do a pilot with shipwrecks in Lake Washington using just my 5 meter boat and the two of us and deeper wrecks in Puget Sound with a few divers and a bigger boat due to swell, we'll start making some noise. Logistics is a key issue as well that is being addressed, not just cost/capabilities.

When a boat like this is sufficient for archaeological expeditions:

instead of requiring something like this:

with equipment that costs 60.000 Euros instead of paying someone to do the work for you 100.000 Euros PER WEEK, you're entering a new age in maritime archaeology.

You have no idea the amount of luck I've had on this project, from Fabien Cousteau, to the laser scanning technology coming out, to the backing of the AHEPA (The Order of AHEPA – American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association) to visiting a FB friend at a dive shop a 15 minute walk from my mother's house in Ilioupolis, Athens whose boss works on archaeology projects and made the introduction to the archaeologists we are working with (as the one I was planning to work with left the Ephorate for a teaching position at the University of Thessaly, I hope to work with him later, after we've proven this technology and raised funds to donate to his department or his NGO).

Hoping to get Tom Hanks to narrate an IMAX film as my mother knows his priest in LA. Why the F not? I've been so lucky so far, maybe he'll say yes.

 

[crofrog]

Practice what you preach or change your speech.

We all more or less know AJs resume. What’s your?

I’m for instance a nobody.