OP
No weights with steel tank unsafe?
- Thread starter heavyjeffd
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Mayor
Contributor
Well in a situation that emergent where my BC has failed and my tank and gear is pulling me down, I guess I'd be hanging on to the SMB waiting for a rescue at that point.
Sounds pretty bleak doesn't it?
Hopefully my Ranger never fails.
Now I understand. Your going to ditch at the surface not at 80 feet. What are your normal dive profiles? What are you buddies using?
OP
heavyjeffd
Contributor
We all have pretty similar gear, though not all of us carry SMB's (we probably should, me included).
Profile-wise, in land-locked Texas it's pretty tame as you can imagine. Most dives are in the 20-60' range. You can get deeper than that in some lakes here but it's so murky that vis is rarely more than a few feet, so typically you end up taking a charter somewhere for Gulf dives to do anything truly deep.
Profile-wise, in land-locked Texas it's pretty tame as you can imagine. Most dives are in the 20-60' range. You can get deeper than that in some lakes here but it's so murky that vis is rarely more than a few feet, so typically you end up taking a charter somewhere for Gulf dives to do anything truly deep.
rstofer
Contributor
I am one of the people complaining about the lack of ditchable weight. My views aren't shared by most but here's what I think:
I think that when you are the victim and subsequently rescued, it should be trivial for the rescuer to establish positive buoyancy at the surface to keep you from sinking. I think it should be done by ditching weights.
If I were the rescuer facing the task of towing you for a distance, I would probably want to use the tank tow method and I would want you to be breathing out of your own regulator. So, ditching the rig is not something I would relish.
I think that rescue should be the primary consideration in equipment selection. But, again, that's just my view.
FWIW, I am about 26# negative at the start of the (deep) dive because not only is my tank -10.5# but I also lose wetsuit buoyancy. My 30# wing can handle it but if I lose the wing, I can drop 20# of lead. I don't know how fast I'll be going when I hit the surface but at least I should be able to get up. I will certainly be positive at the surface.
Spend more time thinking about rescue and less time thinking about SMBs. If you are the victim, it is unlikely your rescuer will use an SMB to get you up. Oh, and since my 30# lift wing is JUST more than my 26# negative buoyancy, I don't have anything left to pull up a victim. If they are 20# negative and I can't ditch their weight, one of us isn't coming up.
Richard
I think that when you are the victim and subsequently rescued, it should be trivial for the rescuer to establish positive buoyancy at the surface to keep you from sinking. I think it should be done by ditching weights.
If I were the rescuer facing the task of towing you for a distance, I would probably want to use the tank tow method and I would want you to be breathing out of your own regulator. So, ditching the rig is not something I would relish.
I think that rescue should be the primary consideration in equipment selection. But, again, that's just my view.
FWIW, I am about 26# negative at the start of the (deep) dive because not only is my tank -10.5# but I also lose wetsuit buoyancy. My 30# wing can handle it but if I lose the wing, I can drop 20# of lead. I don't know how fast I'll be going when I hit the surface but at least I should be able to get up. I will certainly be positive at the surface.
Spend more time thinking about rescue and less time thinking about SMBs. If you are the victim, it is unlikely your rescuer will use an SMB to get you up. Oh, and since my 30# lift wing is JUST more than my 26# negative buoyancy, I don't have anything left to pull up a victim. If they are 20# negative and I can't ditch their weight, one of us isn't coming up.
Richard
OP
heavyjeffd
Contributor
I agree with you about dumpable weights, however I cannot dump a limb, if you know what I mean.
As it is I can dive with no weights in a 3mm (though I sometimes use 2 or 4 lbs).
My Ranger BC has a 44# wing, so I'm hoping that the additional ~12lbs negative I am to start with a full steel 130 can be compensated for with my BC and the ~3-4ish lbs negative I'd be at the end of the dive would hopefully be easily handled by my BC as well.
I don't really see my Ranger failing any time soon, but things happen so I'd just like to be prepared.
So the scenario is really, if my BC were to fail, I'm negative even with an aluminum tank, should I not use steel because I'd be even more negative?
I can use AL80's forever, but I'd really like the extra capacity of the steel 130's, I don't need it for the buoyancy characteristics at all. I guess I could always go with two AL80's.... hrmmm. :thinking:
As it is I can dive with no weights in a 3mm (though I sometimes use 2 or 4 lbs).
My Ranger BC has a 44# wing, so I'm hoping that the additional ~12lbs negative I am to start with a full steel 130 can be compensated for with my BC and the ~3-4ish lbs negative I'd be at the end of the dive would hopefully be easily handled by my BC as well.
I don't really see my Ranger failing any time soon, but things happen so I'd just like to be prepared.
So the scenario is really, if my BC were to fail, I'm negative even with an aluminum tank, should I not use steel because I'd be even more negative?
I can use AL80's forever, but I'd really like the extra capacity of the steel 130's, I don't need it for the buoyancy characteristics at all. I guess I could always go with two AL80's.... hrmmm. :thinking:
Before you get into all these calculations and debate on weighting & buoyancy, the first question to ask yourself is simply how much gas do I need? There are no prizes awarded to the diver who comes up with the most unused gas in his or her tank. Define your dive plans, determine your gas requirements, and then see what options you have. Might really open your eyes!
OP
heavyjeffd
Contributor
Oh I have. There are many times when I'd not need the extra air a 130 provides, however having extra air is fine in comparison to burning through a tank and being done for the day.
I appreciate all the feedback guys, really. Thanks a bunch.
I appreciate all the feedback guys, really. Thanks a bunch.
rstofer
Contributor
I agree with you about dumpable weights, however I cannot dump a limb, if you know what I mean.
As it is I can dive with no weights in a 3mm (though I sometimes use 2 or 4 lbs).
Absolutely nobody will agree with this: add foam buoyancy blocks between the tank and the back of the BC. Do anything it takes to get neutral at the surface.
So the solution would be to stay on the bottom until you have used up your air. Hm...
In my view, and I have already said MOST, if not ALL, will disagree, is that you should not use the steel tank if you can't come up with a way to get positive on the surface. For the warm water diver, this can be difficult.
It's not coincidental that warm water diving is often done with an Al 80 or a steel 72.
Then why? If you can reach the NDLs with the Al 80's, why change? Of course, if you use Nitrox it is highly unlikely that you can reach the NDLs unless you use a much larger tank.
Luxfer is making a 4350 psi Al 106 that is -4.8# at the start of the dive and +3.1 at the end. I have no idea where to buy one and I don't know where it can be filled. At 34#, it's pretty light - just about the same as a HP 100.
Richard
OP
heavyjeffd
Contributor
Thank you, Richard. I do appreciate all the information.
The foam blocks are something I will definitely look into. With a full AL80 I am almost neutrally buoyant in a 3mm (slightly negative). So giving myself a little lift is a great idea.
Again, thanks for the time and the input, I do appreciate it.
The foam blocks are something I will definitely look into. With a full AL80 I am almost neutrally buoyant in a 3mm (slightly negative). So giving myself a little lift is a great idea.
Again, thanks for the time and the input, I do appreciate it.
rstofer
Contributor
A better approach to adding buoyancy would be to add it to your body rather than your BC.
In a perfect world, you would float without your BC (ditching weights is ok) and your BC will float when fully inflated without being worn. For warm water, maybe your ditchable weight is integrated into the BC.
These things are easily achieved for cold water wetsuit divers. Warm water divers have more of a challenge.
Richard
In a perfect world, you would float without your BC (ditching weights is ok) and your BC will float when fully inflated without being worn. For warm water, maybe your ditchable weight is integrated into the BC.
These things are easily achieved for cold water wetsuit divers. Warm water divers have more of a challenge.
Richard
Similar threads
