One BP/wing for 3, 5, and 7 mil Wet Suit

[twinkles]

I thought I had figured out what to get.

I was pretty sure I wanted to go with the Kydex back plate and the LCD 30 single tank wing.

But then I started wondering about the difference between the Torus and LCD.

As I read on, I began to wonder if the Kydex back plate would be a poor choice for the occassions when I want to wear a 5 or 7 mil wet suit.

Is it possible to put together a single tank rig that would work with a 3, 5, and 7 mil wet suits primarily using AL 80s, but occassionally using steel 120s?

I understand I would have to vary the ballast using a weight belt and perhaps some pockets on the cam bands for trim.

As long as I am getting specific, I am

6 feet tall

185 lbs

Gear I would expect to carry: SMB, finger spool, small camera, flashlights, and potentially a lower end canister light.

I understand that if/when I get into technical diving I would need to adjust, but is it possible to put together a single rig that would work for "wet" recreational diving from the Caribbean to--at the cold end--Galapagos or Cocos.

 

[TSandM]

Well, you'd probably have to adjust the harness a bit to keep it snug. The disadvantage of the Kydex plate is that it doesn't have the elastomer grommets in the slots for the harness. They're nice because it's actually fairly easy to pull the harness material through them if you apply force, so all you have to do is mark the lengths for the various suits, and you can easily adjust. With the Kydex, you have to use a triglide, and the stiff webbing can be a PITA to readjust, once it takes a set.

Adjusting the ballast is easy, and adjusting the harness length isn't hard if you use a softer webbing, even with the triglides.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Is it possible to put together a single tank rig that would work with a 3, 5, and 7 mil wet suits primarily using AL 80s, but occassionally using steel 120s?

Is there one perfect BP&W for use from the Equator to the arctic, with every type of exposure suit every made and possibly every cylinder now in circulation?

In a word no.

Wings need to be sized for the most buoyant exposure suit. In your example that means the 7mm suit.

Plate material choice is based on required ballast. With heavier suits and / or buoyant tanks the ballast provided by the SS plate is a benefit.

With thin suits and or negative tanks the near neutral Kydex plate is a benefit.

If there was a magic, single, universal answer that's great everywhere, with all combination of gear, I would not offer two types of plates and 13 different wing capacities.

Backplates and wings offer unique advantages, streamlining, easy venting etc. When you try to force one set of gear to "to it all" you will inevitably end up with compromises that will lessen the advantages of a BP&W.

I'm happy to help, but you need to narrow your focus at bit.

Tobin





Is there one perfect BP&W for use from the Equator to the arctic, with every type of exposure suit every made and possibly every cylinder now in circulation?

In a word no.

 

[RAWalker]

Perfect for all times, no! Usable, absolutely! You'll need to oversize the wing slightly and weight heavily at times. I'm doing the same thing using a OMS SS BP/45# bungeed wing, STA and comfort harness. The up side is it is enough wing for doubles.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Perfect for all times, no! Usable, absolutely! You'll need to oversize the wing slightly and weight heavily at times. I'm doing the same thing using a OMS SS BP/45# bungeed wing, STA and comfort harness. The up side is it is enough wing for doubles.

Oversize slightly? A 3mmm suit and aluminum 80 will allow he use of a very small wing, 17lbs is more than enough for most. Even a 7mm suit + 120 steel is unlikely to require more than a 30 lbs.

A 45 lbs combo bungeed wing with a single al 80 and a 3mm suit is the poster child for negating many of the benefits of a BP&W.

Being over weighted is never a good idea, and the answer is never a higher lift BC.

Tobin

 

[twinkles]

Please be gentle I am new to this environment.

I really wasn’t thinking the equator to the artic, just from the equator to Florida--you know where we recreational divers tend to go. Using the cylinders that resort operators tend to supply--generally AL 80s, but occasionally Steel 120s.

Nonetheless, I am starting to learn and understand.

Can you help me understand the difference between the Torus and LCC – trade-offs and benefits.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Please be gentle I am new to this environment.
Can you help me understand the difference between the Torus and LCC – trade-offs and benefits.

My recommendation is to first determine the required lift, the differences in the water between a Torus and a LCD are quite small.


It's really not practical to try and provide all the possible pros and cons of all the possible combinations of plates and wings and tanks and suits via serial posts.

This needs to be done interactively. You are welcome to call me at 626-799-5078. I'll be at that number in about an hour.

Tobin

 

[RAWalker]

Oversize slightly? A 3mmm suit and aluminum 80 will allow he use of a very small wing, 17lbs is more than enough for most. Even a 7mm suit + 120 steel is unlikely to require more than a 30 lbs.

A 45 lbs combo bungeed wing with a single al 80 and a 3mm suit is the poster child for negating many of the benefits of a BP&W.

Being over weighted is never a good idea, and the answer is never a higher lift BC.

Tobin

In general I agree with you but this is a compromise for someone that wants to get into a BP&W on a budget that does a wide range of different types of dives.
Yes it will negate many of the advantages but not all of them.
Additional purchases later (smaller wing lighter plate) can fine tune towards the tropical side and get all the advantages over the entire range of use.

 

[irishsquid]

Is there one perfect BP&W for use from the Equator to the arctic, with every type of exposure suit every made and possibly every cylinder now in circulation?

In a word no.

I'm happy to help, but you need to narrow your focus at bit.

Tobin

I'd give Tobin a shot at helping you get setup. He knows his stuff and helped me when I ordered my setup; SS bp/ LCD 30, Hog harness.
By the way, I use this very same setup with a 5mm in FW and a 3mm in SW, 0 lbs lead in both situations, and it sure is nice not having to adjust all the time. Of course it would be another story if I was using the 3mm in FW and the 5mm in SW, but those changes aren't in my near future. (I hope)

 

[twinkles]

I am virtually certain that when I decide to make the switch, I will go with DSS. But just as I avoid “trust me” dives, I try to avoid “trust me” equipment purchases.

I want to understand why one wing and one back plate would represent a compromise for what I had thought was fairly mundane recreational diving. (I am starting to gather that answer.)

I want to understand the tradeoffs between a horseshoe and donut shaped wing (it had escaped me that horseshoe/donut was what the difference was between the Torus and the LCC).

I want to understand weighting issues.

I want to better understand the advantages of a hogarthian rig (as best I can without actually experiencing it).

I want to decide to what extent I want to become a “purist.” (Having switched from Catholicism to Atheism, a new religion might be fulfilling.)

Most of my questions probably strike the habitué in this forum as brainless, but that which is presumed obvious here can be quite unexpected to a guy who has only known a vest BC for 23 years.

I probably should have started asking my questions in the hogarthian forum, rather than here. I ended up in the DSS forum because of the enthusiasm on this board for DSS products.