Ow, iow, aow

[Stujiro]

Lots of people get just enough certifications to keep people from hassling them and telling them that there are things they can't do. AOW has enough variety that it keeps people from hassling them. This is a big reason that lots of people take it early on.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

Why do we constantly blame the agency or instructor for the failings of our students who show up without having read the material or completed knowledge reviews, pay little attention in class, retain little of what they've learned, and make the instructor repeat everything 3-4 times to get it straight?
Personally I think we blame the agency and instructor because we cannot possibly admit half our students are unsuited for the sport and learn at a sixth grade level.

If this were the case why would you give them the card? They shouldn't pass...

Oh, and by the way AOW is a sorry excuse for a class. "Advanced", that's laughable!

 

[lowviz]

.............<I thought you are (or were) an instructor? Are you lax enough that your students don't see you as the inquisitor?>

Why do we constantly blame the agency or instructor for the failings of our students who show up without having read the material or completed knowledge reviews, pay little attention in class, retain little of what they've learned, and make the instructor repeat everything 3-4 times to get it straight?

Personally I think we blame the agency and instructor because we cannot possibly admit half our students are unsuited for the sport and learn at a sixth grade level.

The OP asked a resonable question, I attempted to answer in good faith.

Please reread my post to Ana using seventh grade insight. The board is starting to annoy me again, need another break. I have enough strife in my daily existence, -not looking for more. No need to respond, carry on.

 

[Ana]

Thanks for not disappointing me, nice blast. There aren't rules other than my dive plan or the boat captains' foibles that I follow with any regularity. However, I feel that it is important to be exposed to the best collection of knowledge and experience that is available in order to make my own decisions. Thus, a few suggestions for increasing the options for dive education.


Excellent advice for all of us fools who head out under a small-craft advisory to snag a solo dive or two before things get ugly.

<I thought you are (or were) an instructor? Are you lax enough that your students don't see you as the inquisitor?>

I didn't mean to blast you personally... I guess I get hi levels of paranoia when the hint of more restrictions on diving comes up. Your talk about additional endorsements is a huge red flag for me. As it is, I have to resign myself to be treated as a drooling idiot each time I go on a charter outside S. Florida.

Maybe not the point of this thread, but keep in mind that each time a new rule, certification or piece of gear comes out; divers that were fine doing their own thing, have to deal with said rule/cert/gear because of the new divers need all the safety and hand holding available. Because is not right to tell them to learn their stuff right the first time; much less tell them to take Parcheesi, because if getting their face wet is an issue, then diving is just not their thing.

For the record, I'm not now, ever been or will ever be an instructor. My philosophy is that unless one is a little child it is no one responsibility to teach that person, it is that person's responsibility to learn, the sources to learn are there for the taken.

As far as heading out under small craft advisory to solo dive, this is a magnificent example. Whatever I may or may not think of you doing that, it should make absolutely no difference. Most likely you are an adult an if you want to do that, then go right ahead. I hate for you to have to prove to anyone that you are capable of handling that situation.

You say it is important to be exposed to best collection of knowledge, sure I don't disagree. Do you think is difficult to access that knowledge? If there has ever been easy access to knowledge is now. Any diver that remains uneducated does it out of their own desire... who ever claims "no-one told me" should be left to drift into Darwin's land.

 

[DaleC]

I did my drysuit on dive 6, AOW dive 8, first computer dive 15, first Nitrox dive 20 and first solo dive 21 (and I'm not dead yet). I wouldn't recommend or not recommend my pathway because I don't feel I need to manage someone elses experience.

If I learned anything new after 150 dives from an AOW course I would say I wasn't paying attention during those initial dives. Were they all < 60' with poor navigation, bouyancy and search techniques; never involving shooting SMB's, night diving or examining a wreck? Courses should teach you something new, not something you already know (unless ones just a card collector).

 

[tracydr]

I think AOW class is an excellent class with a lot of value. My only issue is that I think it needs to be renamed. When you're truly a beginner at something you don't even know enough to know what you don't know. You may not even know enough to know what questions to ask. Then, add the fact that some of these divers may be 20 something, testosterone charged young men, tell them that they are "Advanced" and you just gave them the key to the ocean. You could teach them the exact same class and tell they are Intermediate, that they have to dive "the blue slopes" and maybe keep them out of trouble. Just food for thought.
Same training, different name. The AOW could then get revamped to include some more really advanced skills, plus be a tune-up after a bit more experience.

 

[TSandM]

I think we need AOW as it is, or something similar with another name, simply because there aren't enough dives and there isn't enough time in OW to get a lot of people really comfortable and stable. There may be in warm, clear water, but not here. Having an immediate class so that people can get some more dives under supervision (and with somebody there to try to prevent corking) is very valuable, IMO.

There are plenty of "advanced" classes available for people to take later, if they decide they would like to add to their skill set.

 

[Garth]

I was thinking about the ongoing arguement of when to take the AOW class. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I actually didn't take AOW until I had about 150 dives, including a bunch of deep dives, night, high current and cold water dives in all parts of the world. It took getting divorced before I was able to start furthering my formal dive education.
Anyway, in some ways, I'm glad I had all that experience before doing AOW, Rescue and now DM. I shudder to think about OW divers with 4 dives under their belt going to their AOW class, maybe even directly on to Rescue and believing they are an Advanced and Rescue Diver. So, I was thinking, why not offer an "Intermediate Open Water" class that they could do right out of the gates to satisfy that urge. Than specify a certain number of dives, let's say 25, before taking Advanced.
I realize it's another silly card but it could change a diver's mindset for the better and possibly keep them from going beyond their training limits by doing too much too soon, just because they think they are " Advanced" divers. Intermediate Diver just makes it sound a bit more subdued and also characterizes their true experience level better to the DM on a charter, who has no way to differentiate one AOW from another.

If you had all this experience before you took the class, did you think that was what made you a better diver or the AOW class?
I think it was the people you dove with before you took the class and how intense you were at assessing and attempting to better yourself. A course gives you information and is under supervision of a professional.
It is my opinion that if you surround yourself with divers that have discipline then you will be shocked when you develop faster than those divers that just take classes and dive with bozo's.

 

[DaleC]

Why restructure the world because a few people can't use common sense. You could call it basic, groundlevel go so slow and those same people would do the same things regardless.
The dumbing down of society does not create smarter people.

 

[tstocum]

Within a month of obtaining my Open Water certification, I took the Advanced Open Water certification course. During our first session, my instructor made sure that the other students and I knew that the course did not make us "advanced" divers, and that only actual diving in various conditions could make us advanced divers.

Maybe it's not the name of the course that matters, but how the certifying agency's course is presented/marketed to the students that counts more. Maybe if the students are informed, like I was, that the Advanced Open Water certification is meant to expose the students to other facets of diving only, they won't leave the course thinking they have more experience then they do. Just my thoughts on the matter.