Place of dive tables in modern diving

[tursiops]

"the tables can't be validly used for multi-level dives"

LOL. Would you be happier if I inserted "by themselves" after "tables"?
I think you are parsing this a bit too finely.....

 

[dead dog]

So, you're saying that any person who is taught the use of tables correctly will never make a mistake in using them in the future, even if they haven't looked at or thought about a dive table in 20 years?

No, I'm not saying that. You are saying that. If they were taught properly they would know to use 90 feet as their deepest dive. We all can make mistakes in life as well as in diving. No one is perfect. You can also make mistakes in programming a computer. Then what?

 

[tursiops]

If they were taught properly they would know to use 90 feet as their deepest dive.

?? What does this relate to?

 

[The Chairman]

Except as an historical curiosity, I see no compelling reason to teach tables to my students. Just like I point out that my first depth gauge was a red ribbon, I don't expect them to dive like I had to back then. Like candles, tables were 'gud enuf' until someone invented the incandescent lamp. The reasons for sticking to tables are as compelling as "but I really like the mood". OK, so you feel they impart some superhuman understanding of physiology and deco theory? They really don't. Ah, so you need them to be a mencsh diver? No. Not at all. Are they easier to use? Not even close. I can teach most students how to use their PDC in about five minutes. Add another thirty to relate it to their actual diving. With tables I have to manipulate those magical letters like I'm the Count on Sesame Street. "You're a K! A K diver! Hahahahaha" It can take a couple of hours for some to finally comprehend what they're dealing with and you can tell that they still don't really have it. But hey, we're both exhausted and he's thinking "I'll just follow the DM" so screw it. You know he is. The biggest reason I'm reading is that tables don't require batteries, like they're in short supply, and a mild case of misplaced techno-phobia. Welcome to the Department of Backup Department for Backups. You never know when a word will lose a letter so we have backups in our name. Just plan. Take extra PDCs and definitely take some extra batteries. My last trip to Bonaire I carried 3 PDCs and extra batteries. The Garmin Descent on my wrist, my tried and trusty Shearwater, and my old Hollis VT03 (DT03?). Someone forgot their PDC, so my Hollis was put into use and I dove the other two PDCs on every dive with some exceptions. Charged the Garmin once but never had to change the battery on the Shearwater but the battery on the Shearwater lasted the entire trip.

Oh yeah, let's not forget how the Stockholm Syndrome is affecting this discussion. In my experience, the people who feel the strongest that tables MUST be taught are the ones who struggled with them the most. You know it's true. They feel if they had to figure this crap out that everyone should have to do it too. You're free my friends! You're not held captive by those elusive sheets of plastic anymore. Don't go all Patty Hearst on us. Join the modern era of diving. The old days weren't really all that good.

 

[AfterDark]

Why? Why wouldn't the "most conservative" win? If your tables say 20 minutes and your PDC says 15 minutes, on what basis would you say that 20 minutes is fine?.

Why, because I have 30+ years of successful tables use and only 5 years of successful PDC use. The tables haven't changed, they were safe for me to use for over 30 years. Why I'll ask you should tables not win out?
By the why 5 minutes is about the most difference I've found between the 2 as I recall, as least within NDLs.

 

[dmaziuk]

But isn't that probably good enough? Is for me...

Yes, but by that logic (e.g.) 60 + 60 rule is just as probably good enough and is much easier to remember and apply when narced and panicked and lost at sea out of gas.

 

[tridacna]

Your e-learners are shopping online....

Actually we seldom see them anyway. They sign up online, they do their confined pool work and OW dives somewhere in the ether. We just get paid by PADI.

 

[lowviz]

Yes, but by that logic (e.g.) 60 + 60 rule is just as probably good enough and is much easier to remember and apply when narced and panicked and lost at sea out of gas.

Yep, that would be my second guess. If that bad, I'd do a controlled ascent to 10-15' (don't start that debate) and breathe down everything I have.

If things weren't quite so bad, then I'd attempt a better guess to maybe save some down time. I have choices...

 

[dmaziuk]

If things weren't quite so bad, then I'd attempt a better guess to maybe save some down time. I have choices...

But tables will only give you a better guess on square-ish profile on day 1. Realistically you're better off just diving with the same computer and letting your subconsciousness learn its patterns. If it loses its marbles on dive 501 you'll know right away something's off, no tables or rules or deco theories required.

And it's a straw man argument anyway. If my computer's dead and I'm over 5 minutes past NDL and I've enough gas in my Al80 to do 15 minutes of deco, then it's a glitch in the matrix and the next moment I'm gonna wake up in my bed remembering nothing.

 

[dead dog]

?? What does this relate to?

See post #204