Polish diver dies in world record attempt to 333m

[wgw04024]

Are voice comms out of the question due to the depth?

 

[RainPilot]

Why would he carry 15 bottles when you say he doesn't have to carry any to set the record?

If there is a current and you end up away from the line for some reason, you are going to be on whatever gas you have on you, until someone can get more to you. I can't speak to 15 tanks but there would at least be some redundancy if a staged tank was unavailable.

Are voice comms out of the question due to the depth?

It's not the depth, per se, but comms means a FFM and with the amount of gas switches etc etc I don't think that would have been high on their list. A KM-48 mask would allow for standard gas management and comms but there is still an aversion to FFM in the tech community.

 

[Kay Dee]

............Why would he carry 15 bottles when you say he doesn't have to carry any to set the record?

Firstly, who confirmed he carried 15 cylinders in the first place? That I would really like to know.

As for your belief of needing to carry all your gas from surface to resurfacing, take a look at the pics in the link below and you will see that Ahmed Gabr even passed off his back mounted main clinders (to a safety / support diver one would assume) somewhere during his ascent (as you will see him there pulling deco without them). And AFAIK he still currently has the record.

So, unless you can point me to chapter and verse where it states that to set the record one needs to carry all their gas down and back, I'll remain comfortable believing they don't.

Ahmed Gabr breaks record for deepest SCUBA dive at more than 1,000 feet

 

[CuzzA]

Got some more FB chatter info on this event.

Apparently Sebastian's deposited tanks' lines, along the descent line, were the entanglement culprit. He first got tangled up in those deposits at a deeper depth, but managed to get himself free. Then, he got tangled again at 179m and couldn't get himself free.

Probably an easy task at 20m with 1 stage tank, but something much different at 179m with 15 stage bottles around you and having just visited 333m ...

Firstly, who confirmed he carried 15 cylinders in the first place? That I would really like to know.

As for your belief of needing to carry all your gas from surface to resurfacing, take a look at the pics in the link below and you will see that Ahmed Gabr even passed off his back mounted main clinders (to a safety / support diver one would assume) somewhere during his ascent (as you will see him there pulling deco without them). And AFAIK he still currently has the record.

So, unless you can point me to chapter and verse where it states that to set the record one needs to carry all their gas down and back, I'll remain comfortable believing they don't.

Ahmed Gabr breaks record for deepest SCUBA dive at more than 1,000 feet

Kay Dee, you seem to believe I'm arguing one way or the other and I'm not. I asked the question. As for 15 tanks, see the post quoted above yours.

It appears you don't have to carry all of your gas. So given that, a smart and creative team could devise a line system that would allow for the lions share of the gas to be pre-positioned on a line system significantly reducing an entanglement hazard. Of course it sounds like if he would have simply not deviated from the original plan when his 200 meter team member did not show, he may be alive today.

 

[doctormike]

I don't think I'd compare it to using a choppah, either. They use the gear that they feel is necessary. AFAIK they aren't wearing shorts, climbing shoes, and a bag of chalk. They use ropes and carbiners and special exposure gear and most of the time oxygen and probably all kinds of other gear.

Yes, of course there are many technical differences between helicopters and submarines, and aviation issues surrounding extreme altitude flights. I had just said that "because it is there" isn't a reason to do everything, no matter what Mallory said, because there are a lot of places that are "there" (like the Marianas trench) that are far beyond what will ever be possible on OC scuba. Then you pointed out that people have gone to the Marianas trench already, and I simply was responding that going there in a sub doesn't mean that it will someday be an OC destination, no matter how good OC gear or any future individual's diving ability eventually gets.

In a free society, people will do what they feel compelled to do. Some folks feel complected to climb mountains, some people feel compelled to dive. Some subset of those want to do "the ultimate" at whatever they do, or perhaps even be "the best" as that individual might define it. Personally, I have no problem with either. If someone wants to do something likely to kill them, more power to 'em. Those things aren't for me, but who am I to say that they can/can't or even that they should/should not do the thing.

This really isn't a "freedom" thing - no one is implying that any of us pushing back are suggesting that there should be some sort of legal obstruction. It's just a bunch of divers giving their opinions about what these record attempts inspire and what they prove.

Most often the people getting uppity about someone doing something likely to result in death on scuba because those people are making money from scuba in some way (or perhaps working in scuba but not making money...). They perceive the deaths as a potential threat to the sport in one or more ways and so try to dissuade others from doing risky dives. The trouble is that those folks aren't wrong about the deaths being a potential threat. It's a tough call.. promote freedom or protect your revenue stream/job. OK, so for most it's not that tough of a call.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't make a dime of scuba diving. I try very hard to promote diver safety, here and elsewhere, because I think that it's just being a good citizen of our little tribe. I know that you do this too...

 

[doctormike]

So he has reached his goal at 333m only to get stuck at relatively shallow depth of 176m on his return to the surface!
What a pity.
So the depth is NOT impossible and is doable with better deep support.

I can see someone will try again or may be even deeper!

No, I wouldn't draw that conclusion. The fact that he got to 333 doesn't mean that the dive plan is fine. Setting the record involves getting to that depth and getting back safely. How do you know that what happened at 176m would have happened even if he hadn't been to 333m? Are you assuming that the previous depth wasn't a contributing factor to his entanglement at 176m? Residual HPNS? Compression arthralgia? Decompression stress? Pulmonary issues? I don't know, but I wouldn't assume that.

 

[Kay Dee]

Kay Dee, you seem to believe I'm arguing one way or the other and I'm not. I asked the question.

I am not arguing the point either, just been trying to answer your question and convince you that you were mistaken.

As for 15 tanks, see the post quoted above yours.

As far as I am concerned at present, until I hear further, that seems just speculation, or at best second hand news (and no offense meant to the person posting that info here either. Keep it coming.). And IIRC even that doesn't say he was carrying them on his person - just 15 stage bottles 'around' him - at 200m.

I have asked before and will ask again, where is / does one find confirmation that he had '15 stage bottles' around him (i.e. even some on the line) @200m (or anywhere during the dive for that matter)? I only ask because I am perplexed at the number, as that is an ungodly number to have to deal with, especially alone.

So given that, a smart and creative team could devise a line system that would allow for the lions share of the gas to be pre-positioned on a line system significantly reducing an entanglement hazard.

That be the norm, or has been the norm in past attempts I know about. And if you read the post you linked in above, it seems like that's what the group did on the day, i.e. had stage bottles placed on the line. Shame the lack of support divers though.

Of course it sounds like if he would have simply not deviated from the original plan when his 200 meter team member did not show, he may be alive today.

Possible / more likely of course. We will never know. Whatever the reason the 200m 'support' diver was not there, I bet he is feeling the pain now. My condolences to him!

 

[Dan]

Firstly, who confirmed he carried 15 cylinders in the first place? That I would really like to know.

As for your belief of needing to carry all your gas from surface to resurfacing, take a look at the pics in the link below and you will see that Ahmed Gabr even passed off his back mounted main clinders (to a safety / support diver one would assume) somewhere during his ascent (as you will see him there pulling deco without them). And AFAIK he still currently has the record.

So, unless you can point me to chapter and verse where it states that to set the record one needs to carry all their gas down and back, I'll remain comfortable believing they don't.

Ahmed Gabr breaks record for deepest SCUBA dive at more than 1,000 feet

Here is a more detail article of Ahmed Gabr world record dive, posted by @fsardone in post #60, page 6: Inside the World's Deepest Dive with Egyptian Ahmed Gabr

I think mostly it has to do with dive planning. Ahmed carried 5 tanks on his back, 2 on his side, 2 in front, a total 9 tanks with his kept secret gas mixture. So he would have more entanglement chance than Sebastian, who carried 3 tanks on his back, 6 tanks in front, where he could see.

In his better dive planning, Ahmed had no separate deco tanks hanging at depth, at least no deeper than 110 meters than could cause entanglement, as mentioned in the article: "...he was in good company. Gabr had about 16 support divers with him, the first waiting for him at 110 meters and around five others at various stops along the decompression ladder to assist with extra air, equipment exchanges, tank retrieval and to accompany him on his journey to the surface..." At 110 meters his dive support removed and replaced deco tanks for him. So he went down to his world record depth of 332.5 meters and up to 110m with 9 tanks. "Gabr was supposed to reach maximum depth in about 12 minutes. The rest of the nearly 14 hours he spent underwater were for his ascent. In the end, Gabr himself used nine tanks, while combined, he and his dive team went through 92."

 

[Kay Dee]

What is also interesting, it says that the CCR diver who went down to 100m was not a "support" per se, but a "checking diver" - he went down 1 hour and 40 minutes after Sebastian started submerging. So, the 200m diver that was missing, was most likely also not supposed to sit there for an hour but to go down and check at a predetermined time.

First thanks for posting all the information you have! I realise you are just passing on what you have read elsewhere, so please don’t think I am shooting the messenger with any of my comments.

Re your above, correct, safety/support, even 'checking' divers, have to limit their deco obligations as much as possible (and yes, that’s pretty darn difficult for the sub 100m support divers I know!) least they also become a ‘liability’, and then also need support themselves. So it is the norm for deep support divers to arrive at their ‘station’ only a minute or two/three, etc (depending on his/her depth station) before the main divers pre-planned / arranged return time to that point / station.

And hence why, as a question was asked previously, the bottom diver does generally carry more gas than required to get him back through his first several deep stops (at least). The main diver also has to take into account (or he / she certainly should) the possibility that he might come ‘off the line’ (for one reason or another) and be blown away in the current and hence have to make a ‘free ascent’ (under a ‘lift bag’ one would certainly hope) until surface support can reach him with his shallower deco gases.

That’s certainly how we played our sub 100m dives anyway, and / or performed ‘off the line’ diver-in-deco circumstances. And that 'off-the-line' scenario happened safely numerous times in circumstances I am personally familiar with (albeit coming back from dives much shallower than the one being discussed here.)

 

[Kay Dee]

Does anyone on here have the ability to run a similar dive on a desktop deco program (yes I know we don't know his actually gases but....) just to get a ballpark figure of where his first few deep stops might have been (just for ballpark, as I said)? I don't have access to a desktop program at moment, so if someone would kindly run it and post here please, that would be much appreciated. TIA.