Potential problems with Divemaster class

[4dawgma]

Don't let anyone push you around! Unless its in a shopping cart...that can be kinda fun.

 

[weitodive]

Well, all the conversation has happened over a day or two so it's not like the op has had a ton of time to process what we all are saying and also have time to talk to the shop. He has said a couple of times that he wants to talk to the instructor this weekend so I think we should at least let him have that time to possibly work it out before we get a name.

Put yourself in his position, would you want to jeopardize all the money that has been put in because a bunch of people on the interwebs wanted a name to crucify?

 

[EastCoastWreckDiver]

Thank you so much everyone for educating me on this subject, if it was not for the dive proessionals and ethusiats on this forum I would have never had the knowledge that I have now to get ahold of my current situation and now how to proceed for my future endeavors. Although I will never reveal the name of this shop even if I do have to move to a different shop to finish my education. I hope that after my talk with the instructor we will be able to move forward with the course in the most efficient way possible. I have emailed the instructor to set up meeting dates to go over my concerns only to have been pushed to the side and forced to continue assting with OW classes. I figure that tommorow I will go into the shop and demand to speak to my instructor because if things go poorly, the owner of the non-profit foundation will be coming down this weekend to get a better grasp on what we can do to move the course along with not only my instructor but the shop owner himself. Myself being on a scholarships for my dive training I am supposed to update him on my current progress, I have no records as the dive shop concerning my DM course other than a date written down of when I paid for it. I do not regret the thousands of dollars I have spent on my AOW, rescue class, boat charters and the several pieces of equipment I have purchased from them because up until my DM course I was provided with a good level of service. I do not wish to reveal the name of the dive shop mainly because I dont want my name to be spread around locally as the bad egg. I need a solid reputation locally to continue my future career in the dive industry and this shop could influence others to look at me as just that, a bad egg. If things get to the worse possible outcome we will proceed with an investigation from PADI and the better bussiness association and if I decide to move to another shop and do not get atleast a partial refund, we will move forward in small claims court. I am not asking something for nothing, if my expierence and level of diving are not adequate to be a DM then I hope they tell me and not keep wasting my time. I will update this forum as the situation progresses, hopefully by tommorow. Thanks all for your wonderful input.

 

[Quero]

EastCoastDiver, I don't know if I missed this earlier, but is it possible that the diving you are doing is actually an effort to get you to the minimum dive count to commence the DM course? You need to have 40 dives before you can enroll officially, so if you did need more dives and went along on the training dives of OW courses, you would simply be counted in the ratios like a student and the dives could be logged. That would also explain the empty folder. (Though your profile says you've got 50-99 dives already, I just thought I'd confirm this point.)

 

[beanojones]

DM's get free air including Nitrox.

countering this:

IME
Full-time Instructors get free air anytime, and pay for Nitrox anytime, because O2 is not free
Divemaster get free fills when working, and not for private use (unless they are direct employees.)
DMCs pay for what they use. They are students.

O2 is charged by usage not by tank fill so a 100 of course costs more.

This person has not finished the DM course and is not being asked to go on the boat, but asking to go on the boat. This paying boat fees is entirely appropriate, especially when the DMC is still working on the dive minimums for DM, which are really, really low: 40 to enter, 60 to leave. I would not someone 'helping me' with that low a dive count, even as a DMC. Go through the pool work, swim tests, map assignment, EAP, then see me when you have 60 dives. If I am hesitant to work with you, even then remedial work in confined with specific advice on where to fix your diving, then go get more dives. Lather, rinse, repeat until they are useful as role models for OW students. Until they are useful role models, I don't want them coming on the boat where they are an additional duck to herd. Once they are, if we own the boat, then space-A seating. If we do not own the boat, they pay.

If they choose to pay to go on the boat, then they pay like any other customer, because that's what they are. If they choose to dive Nitrox, then they pay for the O2.

On the other hand, basic scuba forum, divemaster questions....

 

[Bratface]

To the OP, my experience was much the same as TSandM's. My instructor was truly interested in turning me into a competent, educated and well trained diver who enjoyed the sport. There were four of us doing the course together. We were treated like valuable members of the dive shop and our education was more important than schlepping gear. We knew that all the instructors and employees were interested in our welfare.

You, on the other hand, seem to be treated like summer help. I am sorry to hear that your training is not progressing and that you are having to pay for dives. I never paid to go diving while I was in training. I am sure your instructor sees you are a dedicated hard worker, but he is taking advantage of you. Like others have suggested, it's time to have a serious talk with your instructor.

tenover, the work requirements are going to vary with the type of operation through which you are doing your DM, and perhaps a bit what your goals are.

For my DM, I assisted with classes -- that meant I showed up at the academic sessions twice a week, helped issue equipment to the students and solve problems. I sat through the lecture sessions, corrected quizzes and knowledge reviews, and helped students get their gear to their cars. At the pool, I helped carry gear and supervised gear assembly, and I then dove with the class. Afterwards, I'd go back to the shop and help check in the class equipment, rinse it and hang it up. These days began about 6pm and ended at midnight, and that was Monday and Wednesday of each of three weeks.

On the weekends when we did OW dives, I went to the dive site, helped put in the float and line, and helped move gear and supplies for the class and get them set up near the beach. I helped students with their equipment. I was sometimes asked to do the site briefing. I dove with the classes, then helped students swap out tanks and supervised to make sure they stayed warm and were okay. We did the second dive, and then I helped everybody get their stuff back to their cars, and brought back in the float and the extra weights and all the supplies we'd unloaded. These days began about 7am and ended around 2 to 3 in the afternoon. This was one day of each of two successive weekends.

Other than that, I was not expected to work for the shop, but I did my DM through a local dive shop here in Seattle, not a residential program like some of the DM classes in Asia are.

To the OP -- I have a vague memory that I was unable to assist with classes as a DMC until I had completed some of the academics -- I'll have to go review the standards, but that's what I remember.

 

[EastCoastWreckDiver]

Today I rented a couple of tanks and went to do some just plain ol fun shore dives and to better get aquainted with the area I will be assisting with OW students this weekend, saw my instructor at the shop and he nodded to me, while I smiled and waved. He was getting ready to attend to his student for a wreck course going on today so I understand him being too busy to chat with me. Maybe this weekend we will develop some time to talk things over. On the bright side, I had 2 great dives today! vis was about 5 ft and the weater was warm, Gotta look out for those mean crabs though. : )

---------- Post Merged at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:38 PM ----------

Also, I have more than enough dives to have completed the course already, I started the class with 58 dives so my dive log was sufficient.

 

[scubahawk27]

I just finished my Dive Master course in Maui. The shop had 1 set price $300 for the PADI books and $600 for the course which included 8 boats trips and unlimited shore dives with students. I did the gear cleaning once and boat cleaning and storage just to get an idea of the complete job. Most of the intership was working the boat assisting divers in getting set up and ready for their dives. I don't plan on working as a dive master but feel like I could start tomorrow in a full time job.

We had 4 instructors and did have to identify one that I worked with most and tie him down to start getting things signed off. I would keep your checklist in the DM application with you everythime you go and get things checked off as you go. I had a few beers with the instructor away from the shop and it really helped to stay on track. the problem is they don't talk to each other about your progress. You can't do the class cleaning vans or filling tanks, you should be in fronts of divers. And you should have a set price. Your progress should not be based on more money or not.

 

[Suzuki416]

I've not been the most prolific poster in the last 8 years however, I thought I had to add this for you to realise that you are not the only one this happens to..

I did my DM Internship course in 2003..
Whilst I was working at the centre all cylinders & AIR was provided for at no cost to me - I had all my own kit. If I wanted Nitrox though I paid for it.
However, I was also expected to help on classes & 'assist' the instructor'... - if this was a 'working' dive (assisting with a course) then I didn't get charged
This went on for 3 months.. - I had fun & learnt a lot)..
BUT
I got the feeling that everything was 'dragging on'
So one day I looked at my file held in the centre...
There was no information in it to show that I'd assisted in 7 open water classes, 5 advanced classes, try dives, etc, etc... In fact the only item in it with reference to the DM course was the map I submitted 2 months previously..

In fact if I walked, there was really nothing to show for the time & effort I'd put in.

Like you, I don't give up & being very determined to complete the course I started to think how can I make this course work 'better' for ME.

I hadn't done any of the Open water Skills & also no exams so then started asking my Instructor when would we be doing these - (I had asked at least 4 or 5 times before).... - no real reply !...
Started turning up at the centre almost every night after work (even if they didn't have a course on) with my Instructor manual & learning the 'books'.
3 weeks later as I was friendly with all the instructors (turning up & actually being helpful is a huge part of being a DM), I managed to talk an instructor (not mine) into me doing an exam there & then - it was a slow day... Ended up doing every exam that day & the next day did skills in the water with my instructor & another DM..

got the cert...

Do I think I was taken advantage of: YES
Was I the only one this happened to: NO
Would I recommend anyone to do this course at the centre : NO
I heard near the end of my course the owner & my instructor talking aout keeping me here for another couple of months as he needed the help.......

As has been already mentioned: They want you to walk away. It doesn't then look bad on them - you are a quiter...

BTW - I started the course with 150 dives, & had been diving actively for 4 years.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I believe that if they take your money for a class of any kind then do what ever they can to make you quit and leave by not holding up their end of the deal it's not only sleazy but it is in fact fraud.