Primary or alternate donate poll

[Diving Dubai]

You're assuming that the donor with the LH will stay at the maximum distance from the receiver. He doesn't have to. The LH gives you choices. I don't see how having a LH is a waste of time. In fact, if properly trained the LH can be deployed toward an OOA diver faster than fumbling for an octo that's clipped somewhere with some kind of fastener.

You missed the point.

I said that if you need to remain in close proximity to keep control of a diver, then LH is a waste If you let them float away on the end of a LH then you have zero control

Most rec divers aren't that proficient nor predictable even if nothings going wrong. Unless you can maintain contact and control anything can happen

 

[EFX]

Diving Dubai, did you read my post or just skim it? Your claim that a LH is a waste as a general premise is not true. I would not kick a distressed diver or let them float away away if I thought hanging onto to them was a necessity. Therefore, it's not a waste it's a choice. Your second point is also a general assumption. It's also true that maybe nothing will happen.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . The LH gives you choices. . . .

Good point, I think. After donating, you don't even have to deploy the full length (by releasing the excess from where it is hooked or tucked in) if you decide the best course of action is to get in touch contact with the recipient to provide reassurance, stability, etc., and ascend to the surface together. I haven't been taught that, because the presumption has been that I'm diving with divers who dive like I do, but I don't see why it wouldn't be safe.

 

[EFX]

Again, that's not an argument for primary donate, or even for putting your alternate on a necklace. It's an argument for making sure your alternate works.

Your right. It's not an argument for primary donate. It was a polemic against your argument that divers who wear necklessed secondaries don't check their regulators.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You missed the point.

I said that if you need to remain in close proximity to keep control of a diver, then LH is a waste If you let them float away on the end of a LH then you have zero control

Most rec divers aren't that proficient nor predictable even if nothings going wrong. Unless you can maintain contact and control anything can happen

Who says you are not in close proximity with a long hose? A diver trained to receive one will know to stick out their right arm and hold the hose, and the donor will guide them in the correct direction if they must first swim underwater, or at an angle going up. If going straight up, you can be connected or not, depending on the skill/comfort level. You don't lose anything with LH, but you do gain. Whether you will use that in every scenario remains to be seen. Hopefully we don't repeatedly deal with OOG situations.

 

[Diving Dubai]

A diver trained to receive one

[my emphasis]

Again, missed the point.

In my earlier post, I excluded regular buddies or teams who are trained.

I'm talking about the regular rec diver who's OOA and can probably barely remember the drills covered in OW havign a flap cos thy're OOA - they're a liability on a long hose.

Unless the donor is well practiced and has theability to take and maintain control, its going to be a CF

In OW rec LH is pretty pointless. It is perfect for what it was designed for, gas share in line exiting an overhead

My tech rig of course is LH as in my SM General rec rigs, nope

When I see a rec diver in the full gear (LH. + BP/W) they get my attention, as for the most part they're "posing" and their diving skills are far away from where they think they are

And yes I've taught a fair few divers who've adopted LH and spent an awful long time teaching them the correct AS procedure, because they've brought the kit to look cool, not taken any proper training or if they have then certainly not practiced.

My cynicism regarding Rec and LH is well earned

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

[my emphasis]

Again, missed the point.

In my earlier post, I excluded regular buddies or teams who are trained.

I'm talking about the regular rec diver who's OOA and can probably barely remember the drills covered in OW havign a flap cos thy're OOA - they're a liability on a long hose.

Unless the donor is well practiced and has theability to take and maintain control, its going to be a CF

In OW rec LH is pretty pointless. It is perfect for what it was designed for, gas share in line exiting an overhead

My tech rig of course is LH as in my SM General rec rigs, nope

When I see a rec diver in the full gear (LH. + BP/W) they get my attention, as for the most part they're "posing" and their diving skills are far away from where they think they are

And yes I've taught a fair few divers who've adopted LH and spent an awful long time teaching them the correct AS procedure, because they've brought the kit to look cool, not taken any proper training or if they have then certainly not practiced.

My cynicism regarding Rec and LH is well earned

I will agree that an untrained rec diver is going to be a kaka show in the case of OOG with a LH. So yeah, with your additional clarification, I agree. But sadly, I think most divers are so poorly trained that it is still going to be a SHTF situation regardless of traditional 40 inch hose alternate or LH.

Your observations about rec divers in LH+BP/W may be area specific. It is fairly common in my area. One shop teaches that configuration exclusively. When I teach, that's the configuration I teach as well. For cold water diving, BP/W just makes sense. For primary donate, there is the haloing of the 40" hose that are problematic (grabbing the hose with a swivel to prevent the halo).

 

[EFX]

Besides user preference to primary donate or octo donate it also depends on the equipment the dive shop is using. The dive shop I initially trained with used ScubaPro Nighthawks and lady Nighthawks which use the integral BC reg (air2). They taught primary donate because of that equipment.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I had one person tell me that primary donate is better because you are giving a reg that you know is working to the "victim." Okay. But then, by that same argument, you are putting your alternate - which you don't know to be working - in your mouth and hoping for the best.

The reason you want to donate a known working reg is the OOA diver may be close to panic, or at least starved for air. You have been breathing from your primary. When you hand it off, you will have taken a breath and will likely be calmer than the other diver, giving you time to grab your backup without freaking out.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The reason you want to donate a known working reg is the OOA diver may be close to panic, or at least starved for air. You have been breathing from your primary. When you hand it off, you will have taken a breath and will likely be calmer than the other diver, giving you time to grab your backup without freaking out.

And depending on in what orientation you hand the OOA diver the reg, it may be effectively purged of water and so not result in the OOA diver getting a mouthful of water if he inhales before purging.