Qualifications of a DM

[SlugLife]

Dive Masters exist to solve the instructor/student ratio problem. You can have more students in a class if you use Dive Masters. Most of them are unpaid positions. Some dive centers dangle a assistant instructor or instructor course as bait to keep them interested.

Dive Masters can get insurance, or be listed on a store's policy. Some people call this an internship process, I have always viewed it as free labor. I have known Dive Masters whose skill levels range from better than I ever was to Oh my God hes going to kill someone. I am not sure what the solution is.

I'm pretty much always opposed to unpaid labor.

Interesting.

In a world where the vast majority of divers can't manage to keep track of their own buddy and their own buoyancy and gas contents

Guiding a group deserves a little more respect. It's no mean task to keep tabs on 6 - 10 divers. Making sure they're not wandering off, being able to keep tabs on their gas levels, while navigating the dive keeping tabs and finding critters, while constantly havign a sixth sense for diver problems and being able to solve them and maintain control of the group. They also need to know how to guide the group to ensure the max underwater time.

You'd be surprised how much mental bandwidth you need, and how much effort it requires to learn those skills, even on a familiar site. Just because it looks easy doesn't mean that it is

Agreed, which is why I'd treat dive-guide as it's own specialty, with it's own training. This is also good for people who aren't interested in being a guide, since they can focus more on the skills they are interested in advancing.

I did not get respect from dive ops by flashing a cert card until I got my Tech 40 cert. My point is that most of these certs are incremental stepping stones on a longer journey. I assumed early on that my OW, than my AOW, and on and on, would buy me some leeway in how I was treated on the first dive of an organized trip. I was treated no better than the lowest common denominator, or like an idiot. To the point that DMs were trying to re-rig my kit.

Hopefully, they asked for permission before re-rigging your kit. I'm often open to trying something new, but I'd want to know what they were doing, why, and that they were far more qualified than myself in a particular area.

 

[Joris Vd]

I don't have any quarrels with dm's skills. I'd say about 70% of those I've encountered had adequate skills to do the job they were doing.
You'll have this in all industries in my opinion. There's good ones, ok ones, subpar ones and really bad ones.

If the guy knows his way around a dive site and can keep tabs on the new guys without kicking up the coral i'm fine with it.

I feel like most of the accidents and issues are a result of people not following guidelines.

And OP's linked post about the guy who went into a cave with low vis with his wife and dm
Sorry to say but at a certain point it becomes natural selection... Went into a low vis cavern, knowing he didn't have a light, admits he is scared of caves, knows he is underweighted and then gets pinned to the ceiling... THEN PROCEEDS TO CALL HIMSELF A GOOD EXPERIENCED DIVER!

My brother cut off his fingertip when he was five years old: he found a boxcutter and tried to make arrows from branches in our garden.
That's bad, but I mean it's normal, he was a little idiot. We stressed the danger of knives and he learned a lesson that day (Luckily we managed to stitch the top back on).

But honestly as an adult I do expect a bit more from a person when it comes to risk assesment etc.

We like to treat new divers as if they're some retarded carp-like creature than doesn't know what to do.
To some extent it's true that you need to learn the basics of buoyancy, kicking etc. But at a certain point, where is it the fault of your training, or just the fact that you should be a bit more responsible

 

[markmud]

Hopefully, they asked for permission before re-rigging your kit. I'm often open to trying something new, but I'd want to know what they were doing, why, and that they were far more qualified than myself in a particular area.

They did not ask. They made a declarative statement and then started in at "their" task. I like using my tank position on my back to adjust my trim. It is the largest and heaviest item I dive with. Its position on my back changes my trim. Both of those DMs wanted my tank to hang of my ass and halfway down to my knees.

Another DM, with whom I had been diving with jumped into the soon-to-erupt malae (a pleasant malae, no strong words from me!) and ordered the offending DM to back off. My DG told the offender to leave my kit alone as Mark (I) was a really good diver and in perfect trim! That was Costa Rica.

At Kailua Kona, a former stay-at-home mom and then zero-to-hero instructor tried the same stunt. It did not go very far as the same scenario played out as above. I mention the lady's former profession and gender not to bash, just to indicate that she had not worked her way up from bilge snipe, deckhand, DM, and then instructor.

Another former stay-at-home mom who became an instructor-of-record at a large sporting goods chain store in California (zero-to-hero). She was teaching a deep class and evidently misjudged or mishandled one of her students. He bolted for the surface and died from his injuries. Who knows if a seasoned instructor could have handled the situation, or trained the student any better? I don't know.

I was in the store a few days after the incident. She looked like a semi had run her over. I asked if she was OK and she said that her training session over the weekend had not gone well. I learned from other sources what happened. The SCUBA program at that store ended shortly thereafter.

cheers,
m

 

[Zef]

The TLDR of the other thread is:

• The "DM" in that story lead a group of divers, who were unqualified & not equipped to enter a cave (or cavern that was borderline cave), and placed divers at risk. The unqualified divers also followed, placing themselves at risk

From readi gnthe OP of that thread's other posts, where he stated he acted as a DM for a other group, despite the fact that he was relatively inexperienced, I can only imagine that he talked up his experience quite a bit prior to the dive in question. This is not uncommon. It is easy to talk a good game, and it is fairly easy to hide one's inexperience during a dive when the conditions are good and the dive is not very challenging. It is unclear, at least to me, whether the "cave" was actually a cave, or a cavern, or a swimthrough. Was the OP and his wife unqualified? Perhaps. Were they lacking in experience? most probably. Is that the fault of the DM/DG? Hard to say as none of us opining and commenting on the subject were present to witness what the OP did or didnt say prior to the dive that may have figured into the DM/DG's plan for the dive.

Before we start down the rabbit hole about whether or not DM certification is shite and whether the industry needs a shakedown (i tend to agree though), we need to realize that divers as clients do not always come to the table as honest brokers about their experience and capabilities...this puts their lives and those around them in the water at unnecessary risk for the thrill of 30 to 60 minutes underwater.

I believe the phenomenon of divers with lack of experience will only get worse as there have been studies done for marketing purposes that show the up and comming generation(s) are focused less about gaining expertise in their recreational activities and more about doing things to "collect experiences" to say they have done something...thye dont want gear, they dont want lots of instruction, they just want the experience and move on to another experience...

...while this is not anything new to the dive industry, it means that divers with experience leading to even a modicum of expertise with reliable skills will continue to be the minority.

-Z

 

[ginti]

Before we start down the rabbit hole about whether or not DM certification is shite and whether the industry needs a shakedown (i tend to agree though), we need to realize that divers as clients do not always come to the table as honest brokers about their experience and capabilities...this puts their lives and those around them in the water at unnecessary risk for the thrill of 30 to 60 minutes underwater.

If anything, this is only another reason to raise the bar of skills and experience required to become a DM

 

[ginti]

since we are here... I quote myself

I will divide this answer into two parts: 1st, what you are supposed to be as a DM and 2nd, when I believe one is ready to take the big step. Please consider that I am not a dive professional, so my ideas may be biased - professionals know it better than me.

1 - DM/DL

First of all, different agencies have different regulations and different names. Here in France, the equivalent to a DM is "Niveau 4" (N4), equivalent to CMAS****. In most European countries, the equivalent to DM is the third level diver, or equivalent to CMAS***. With most American agencies, you have the Dive Master certification, Dive Leader, or something similar. From now on, I will only use the word "DM". What do these DMs have in common? They take responsibility for other divers. As such, depending on the country regulations, you might be held liable for accidents.

In general, if an accident happens, you should prove that your response to the accident was appropriate. Here we enter into the legal aspect, which I am not going to cover. So let's move on. In general, I can think of three different kinds of inconvenient that can trigger an accident:
(A) inconvenient that you can solve with skills, such as currents, low visibility, typical environmental issues, etc.
(B) inconvenient that require interactions with other divers: out of gas scenarios, exhausted people, bad etiquette divers, etc.
(C) extreme events: unforeseeable extreme environmental events (never heard about it actually can hapen), panicked divers, serious injury, unconscious divers, etc.

Group (A) comprises things that are manageable with good skills (when they become unmanageable, they move to group (C)). As a DM, you must manage them, period. No excuses. If one day you don't feel well or for any reason, you think you are not able to manage them, do not dive.

Group (B) includes things for which you have extensive training. You are supposed to react appropriately and efficiently and, if the other diver(s) do not respond in an "extreme unforeseeable way"***, you are supposed to solve the issue. The management of these kinds of scenarios includes the abortion of the dive.

***"extreme unforeseeable way" = deliberately not listening to you or getting panicked; both these reactions would move this scenario do group (C)

Group (C) includes things that, unfortunately, you can only partially manage. As a DM, you are supposed to react to put as many divers as possible in safety. For injury and unconscious divers, you should have the training, and you are supposed to respond as to standards. For extreme environmental events, prevention is the only weapon: avoid going to the sea if you expect a thunderstorm. Panicked divers and people who deliberately don't listen to you: well, here really depends on the situation, the only constant is that a DM must be proactive in solving the issue.

2 - When are you ready to be a DM

For sure, you need the training, but is that all?
Before becoming a DM, you need to ensure that your skills are good enough to manage issues in the group (A), that your communication and skills are enough to solve problems in the group (B). Also, you must be able to react to events in the group (C) promptly. How can you ensure that? Let's split the answer into three parts.

Part A - environmental specific needs
Where are you diving as a DM? 30°C water, 20m visibility, no currents? Or North pole in the winter? You need to identify the environment to individuate all the variables to put into the group (A), that is, the problems manageable only with skills. If you dive in 30°C water, 20m visibility, no currents, you should be able to manage at least moderate to mild currents (because they can still happen on bad days) and be sure that you do not rely too much on the high visibility, just in case it drops to 10m (it can happen). If you always dive in a lake, clearly you need to manage different conditions.

Part B - environmental experience
As you see from Part A, you must know how to manage worse conditions than the average. How can you ensure that you are ready? You need to test your skills in these dire conditions. That is, gain experience in the worst diveable conditions of your environment. Like it or not, this requires time because you will not experience a lot of bad conditions in just six months.
NOTE: In reality, if you dive in places with highly stable conditions - you can get enough experience very quickly because bad conditions will rarely happen; if they happen, you treat them as part of the group (C): you do not go diving Even if you dive in places with extremely unstable conditions or change the environment very often, you may gain the experience quickly. But these cases are pretty rare.

Part C - skills and communication experience
Lastly, you need to ensure that your skills, awareness and communication are automatic. That is, you need to:
- experience actual issues (hopefully not serious);
- ensure that your skills/awareness/communications are satisfactory when you respond to the issue;
- if they are not satisfactory, reiterate.
Again, the only way to ensure this is via experience.

In summary, when you have tested your skills, communication and awareness with various issues and in a variety of environmental conditions (that fairly represent the worst scenarios you can face as DM), you may think about going this path.

NOTE: you may be a good DM in some environments, but a very bad one in some "others"; do not lead in the "others"!

I hope people with more experience than me can correct me and improve this answer.

Cheers

EDIT:
1 - I repeatedly used the words "issue(s)", "problem(s)" and similar; what do I mean? Any situation that alters the pleasure of the activity; from very easy issues, like light forms of stress, water in the mask, a double-ender that won't open - to more serious ones, like gas sharing or equipment failures (frankly speaking, I do not wish more serious problem to anyone).
2 - what do I mean when I say "good skills"? Each agency has its own set of standards; when speaking about skills, I like the GUE approach. I believe most people would say that a fundamentals rec-pass level is sufficient for being a DM; you can find the requirement for a rec-pass here, on page 34: https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.pdf
Is this the best approach to evaluate skills? No; and I don't think there is any best approach

 

[ginti]

Learn to be as independent as possible. This is true of everything in life. People are too quick to leave their problems to others. I do my own roofing, my own house repairs, my own vehicle repairs, grow some of my own food (and for others), do my own plumbing, create my own devices with arduino, Rpi, & ESP32, print my own parts when possible and the list goes on. I try to avoid doctors unless it's something I need stitched or worse.

You've got spare time

 

[boulderjohn]

I think people are missing a key point. A newly certified DM does not just go out and lead dives, assist classes, etc. Someone evaluated that newly certified DM and decided to hire him or her. That someone provided specialized training after the hiring so the DM would be able to do things that operator's way. Someone continued to employ that DM after the initial hiring.

The same is true for pretty much any profession that requires specialized training before hiring. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers--all require specialized training before hiring, and although there are some independent workers, all were hired by someone who evaluated their credentials and decided they were good enough to work for them. In all cases, there are still wholly incompetent individuals working at those professions.

When I was certified to be a school teacher, I had to demonstrate my worth to a school district before I could teach. When I was later a department chair and an administrator, I was extremely careful in checking out the qualifications of a potential new hire. If I hired someone who was not good enough to do the job at the level I expected, then that was on me. If I realized that the person I hired was not up to the job, I took care of that problem through an evaluation and termination policy.

 

[Bowers]

I do like the idea of better in water testing and knowledge demonstrations. When i crossed over to RAID as an instructor, i had to pass all of the course exams that i would be allowed to teach then spend a few hours in the water with the IT. We went through all the core skills and i was not to loose neutral bouyancy at any point. I have done other crossovers and was never required to prove anything but number of dives in various environments.

 

[TMHeimer]

I haven't yet read all the posts but will throw in my 2 cents.
I have not seen any "bad" DMs on any of the charter boats I've taken. Now these are boats in Canada & US, and don't involve inwater guides, so I'm only going on how they behave aboard ship (site briefings, safety stuff, etc.).

As an assistant for OW courses 4 seasons, I didn't see bad ones either. I maybe was on courses with half dozen or more other DMs (more than 1 if a large class). They all had good buoyancy, kicking, leadership, skill demonstrations.
From only my own experience, I don't think any other requirements need be added to the DM course. It was revamped (PADI) in 2010 in that they removed some of the theory in favour of more practical inwater stuff. I think that was a good idea.
There are a lot of components to the course. It isn't like a 2 weekend OW Course.
Perhaps the problem is that some shops/instructors don't do a thorough enough job and leave stuff out?
I realize these awful DMs do exist because people frequently write about them here. Only reason I can think of is something gets skimped on when they get certified.

A DM with a bicycle kick??????