Quality Plastic Buckles? Want to Switch from SS to Something Lightweight

[Nemrod]

Is this the plate you're using? You're one of the people I always recall writing about weight reduction, so I'm glad you've replied here.

Curious to know why you're no longer using the OxyCheq plate? (I don't dive nearly as often as you do, so I'm not too concerned with its ability to last at this point as long as a metal plate would.)

The fabric plates are designed with the aluminum 63/80 in mind. They will not stabilize heavier/negative steel tanks (exception being vintage steel 72s). I still like the Oxy plate, just prefer the VDH mini plate. The VDH plate is a little different in that Luis designed it for dh regulators, however, it is excellent with any regulator. But, if your quest is simply a lightweight travel plate I would still recommend the Oxy or similar fabric plates. Just realize they will not have the solid feel of a rigid plate.

N

 

[annasea]

The fabric plates are designed with the aluminum 63/80 in mind. They will not stabilize heavier/negative steel tanks (exception being vintage steel 72s). I still like the Oxy plate, just prefer the VDH mini plate. The VDH plate is a little different in that Luis designed it for dh regulators, however, it is excellent with any regulator. But, if your quest is simply a lightweight travel plate I would still recommend the Oxy or similar fabric plates. Just realize they will not have the solid feel of a rigid plate.

N

I love my OxyCheq fabric plate! I dived a SS plate previously, then a kydex plate that I'm now trying to sell, and of the 3, the fabric one is by far my favourite. If/when it starts fraying, I can always buy another.

On a vaguely related note, someone once told me that a BP/W would be sorely lacking w/out an STA. And that I'd be pushed face forward at the surface if my wing was inflated. I found neither to be true.

 

[eelnoraa]

Perhaps you meant to say that Ti is denser than Al? Which, of course, does not really tell us which one would make for a lighter BP (of equal strength).

Well, I wasn't in the mood for being very accurate in wording or being entire serious.

If you need me to be accurate, yes, Al is 60% the density as Ti. So if you make a plate of same shape and thickess, Ti will be ~60% heavier. Or to make make the plate of the same mass, Ti plate need to be 60% of the volume of an AL plate. Let's say the plate is the same shape, than Ti will need to be 60% of the thickness. Given how thin backplate is today, I don't think 60% of the thickness is realistic. To save weight on back plate, Ti isn't a right material. It is worse than Al in this aspect. This was what I was trying to say. I think DSS kydex is probably much better choice.

---------- Post added September 15th, 2015 at 10:34 PM ----------

When the Jet Harness guy was selling titanium plates, the cost of a pound of titanium was about $15. Now it is about $30 per pound. While more expensive than brass or steel it is not super expensive like gold, platinum, or even silver. Although, the scuba manufacturers price titanium items like they are made out of more expensive metals.

There have been backplates selling in the $200 range for some time. Certainly at this price they could be made out of titanium.

I think the Jet Harness was a product a bit before its time.

I agree to this to certain extend. Ti is being marketed in diving industry as premium material. In fact, the material itself is not that expansive. It is definitely more expansive than Al, SS, but not by much. What makes Ti thing expansive is the it is harder to work it compare to SS, Brass and Al. I would think to band Ti into the backplate shape require more processing as well. Not a Ti expert here, maybe someone with material science background can chip in.

The major benefit is strength to weight ratio, corrosion resistance and a few other properties that divers don't care. For backplate, I don't think strength is ever an issue to begin with. That is why you see Al and Kydex plate. From practical point of view, there is no point for Ti backplate. Al is cheaper, lighter (or less dense for stuartv) and offers more than sufficient strength.

I think the real weight saving material carbon filter. It offers the same strength as Al for about 70% of the weight. Does anyone make such a thing?

 

[stuartv]

The major benefit is strength to weight ratio ... From practical point of view, there is no point for Ti backplate. Al is cheaper, lighter (or less dense for stuartv) and offers more than sufficient strength.

You just said Ti has an major benefit in strength-to-weight ratio, and that Al is lighter than Ti. Huh? Do divers care about how thick the BP is? Does it need to be as thick as a typical SS or Al plate is, or is thinner okay? It seems to me that what is important is the strength. And as long as the Ti plate is just thick enough to be as strong as a SS or Al plate, then, thanks to superior strength-to-weight, the Ti plate will be lighter than Al.

 

[The Chairman]

It seems to me that what is important is the strength.

O rly? How much strength do you think you really need? My main consideration has always been weight. If I'm diving doubles, then the Kydex plate by DSS lightens an already heavy rig and is more than strong enough to support the tanks in and out of the water. If we're still talking about buckles (from the OP), then I've never seen an Al or Ti buckle. Ever.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Gee, I thought I had made a wisecrack when I mentioned something along the lines of "then why not titanium?" Sure, I suppose a relatively thin Ti backplate would be lighter than an equivalently rigid and thicker Al one. But with the difficulty of bending and machining the stuff factored into the retail price, I think it would be way less economical than an Al one. To me, part of the beauty of the BP/W configuration as opposed to a jacket-style BC is that it can be economical. A metal plate--it doesn't get cheaper than that ... unless you start making them out of exotic metals. If you are such a spendthrift gearhead that you'd buy a titanium plate with the idea of using it for airline travel, you probably aren't the type who would balk at the airline's fee for a second bag or could not qualify for the airline's credit card that gets you "free second checked bag."

 

[stuartv]

O rly? How much strength do you think you really need? My main consideration has always been weight.

It needs to be strong enough not to bend or flex when you put on your steel doubles and don your rig, right? I.e. about as strong as a regular SS or Al one. In which case, it could be thin enough to be much lighter. And that was my point. The OP wants lightweight. A Ti plate, built to just be strong "enough" could be lighter than SS or Al - in direct contradiction to eelnoraa's several posts asserting that Ti is "heavier" than Al (and then quoting density to support a statement about weight). Yes, 2 pounds of Ti is heavier than 1 pound of Al. Duh. And a cubic foot of Ti is also heavier than a cubic foot of Al. What does any of that have to do with whether a Ti BP is lighter than an Al BP?

To me, one of the advantages of a BP is the weight itself, so I would not want a lightweight BP for myself. I flew out to dive the B-29 in Lake Mead this past weekend. I put my SS BP - WITH the 8 # bolt-on weight plates attached - in my carry-on bag, along with my wing, wetsuit, hood, boots, gloves, and mask. I did the dive with no weight belt at all, which was pretty nice.

I guess it may happen, but I personally have never flown anywhere where the airline weighed my carry-on bag. They have only cared that it would fit in the overhead compartment. So, I don't mind if my carry-on is extra heavy. It has wheels and a pull handle.... And even if they did weigh it, it's a carry-on bag, so it's not very big, and the only heavy thing in it is my 14 # BP (with the bolt-on weights), so the total weight was still only about 25 #, I think. Not a big deal. The TSA did enjoy scanning that bag, though...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Regional airlines in Asia are the main culprits in thwarting divers' attempts to take an overweight carry-on bag. Air Asia is reported to weigh carry-on bags in Singapore, which is a popular transit airport to Indonesian destinations. Probably some European carriers like Ryanair, too. In the US it is never an issue.

 

[eelnoraa]

O rly? How much strength do you think you really need? My main consideration has always been weight. If I'm diving doubles, then the Kydex plate by DSS lightens an already heavy rig and is more than strong enough to support the tanks in and out of the water. If we're still talking about buckles (from the OP), then I've never seen an Al or Ti buckle. Ever.

I am with NetDoc. The importance is never the strength for backplate, otherwise, Kydex will never exist. Soft fabric plate will never exist either.

 

[cool_hardware52]

It needs to be strong enough not to bend or flex when you put on your steel doubles and don your rig, right?

Wrong. What difference does it make if the plate flexes a little? It's only going to do so out of the water anyway.

I.e. about as strong as a regular SS or Al one. In which case, it could be thin enough to be much lighter. And that was my point. The OP wants lightweight. A Ti plate, built to just be strong "enough" could be lighter than SS or Al -

Wrong again. Ti is about 1/2 the density of Stainless Steel. To be lighter you need less than 1/2 the thickness. Open a Steel manual and learn what happens when you decrease the distance from the neutral axis..........

With a ~18 gauge Ti plate the risk of permanent bend is high.

18 gauge (~.049 thick vs 11 gauge ~.118 thick) is going to do bad things to the webbing at the harness slots.

Ti plates are silly.

Tobin