question about newbies

[k374]

My question is since veteran divers are all too aware of newer divers having a high air consumption rate.

Not all newer divers have high air consumption rate... i'm a small guy, 5'6 130 and my air consumption is pretty good and yes, I am a newbie

 

[Dirty-Dog]

Im not sure it was just something that came out of the blue. Im not sure I just remember when I did a bounce dive to 100 feet for my AOW I consumed nearly 2500 lbs of air by the time I surfaced. Maybe Im over stressing it but I am just concerned with less then 10 dives someone could have serious implications. Such as for example consuming all of their gas before surfaceing, poor weighting issues that may result in over using the power inflator and eventually a runaway ascent or perhaps the most important things we often neglect when new to the sport such as CLOSELY monitoring the 60 fpm rule and even bypassing the safety stops. /QUOTE]

You're pretty much describing me... I had 12 OW dives under my weight belt before I did the AOW deep dive. 106 feet max depth, 25 mins total bottom time. We stayed at 100-105 feet (and swam with a very friendly sea turtle) till my computer said 3 mins left on NDL. Then we went up to about 50 feet for the remainder of the dive. Turned the dive at 700PSI and was above 500PSI when I got back on the boat. And I think I'm a bit of an air hog.

There are too many variables (including personality types and stress responses) to make a blanket statement about such a dive. Obviously mine went fine, since I'm posting this.

 

[scubafanatic]

I'd say 'OK' if the conditions (currents/sea state/vis) are benign, and the diver appears to be a 'natural' (smooth in the water, no yo-yo-ing, relaxed)......just keep an eye on narcosis and monitor their gas status on a reasonable basis, agree on a reasonable turn pressure....and do at least one initiation dive (shallowish, maybe 60 ft. max depth) with said new diver where you personally check them out before doing dive #2 to 100'. Bringing a wrist slate for effective UW communication wouldn't hurt either.

 

[EzeeDiver]

Had something like this happen on a USS Oriskany dive earlier this year. On dive 2, I was asked to "watch" a less experienced diver b/c the person buddied up with the diver from the dive shop was not going to do the second dive with the group. Since the diver was certified and had done the previous dive I said OK, and basically took this as a request to be a good buddy. I asked what the max depth was on the first dive, 100' or so, and we went over a few hand signals (air checks, etc) since I didn't know this person.

The top of the tower is now around 85' or so, so I said let's stay around 90' so as not to exceed the 100' of his last dive. Visibility was not good that day and there was a strong current around the top of the tower on one side, so not ideal conditions. Couple things happened...

1- he exceeded 100' to take a picture of something
2- STOOD on the wreck to take said picture
3- standing was vertical (have seen this in some newer open water classes; any reason they teach this vertical walking thing underwater? Didn't in my classes years ago)

Had to get his attention to ascend back up to 90', so he obviously wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. I decided to do an air check, and he was at 500 psi with about 8 min of NDL time left. Eeeek! I signaled to end the dive and return to the anchor line and start ascent. Did slower than normal ascent and safety stop. All ended well, but he was close to OOA when back on the boat.

Message here has been said previously, diver/conditions/etc, but to be extra cautious with someone you have never dove with before, newbie or experienced. Some people get irritated about the number of times I ask about their air consumption when I dive with them for the first time, but it helps keep us together and not in an OOA situation.

Happy diving!

 

[Teamcasa]

Ok when we all first started diving way back when we all had like 20 minutes at 60 feet and many of us had tanks that were almost looked like a coke bottle full of air at 120 feet when we finished the dive LOL. My question is since veteran divers are all too aware of newer divers having a high air consumption rate. How would you handle another veteran offering to take a newer diver to 100 feet and he has less then 10 logged dives? What if when you pointed out the potential hazards and the veteran insist it will be ok and the new diver cant be talked down???

I'd ask the vet why 100'? Just ego? Unless it's a training dive there is rarely a good reason to take a new diver that deep.

Side note: We had a DM/Guide in Hawaii that took newbies deep to swim through an arch. I suspect he was just trying to use up the newbies air so he could call it a day sooner.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know; the guide who took me to 130 feet was looking for some white-tipped reef sharks that live in some ledges at that depth, and also wanted to show us a field of garden eels that were down there. We saw both things.

If I were on the boat now, and heard an instructor preparing to take a diver with 14 dives to 130 feet, I think I'd feel obligated to ask some questions and probably look like a jerk in the process. But I can see that woman on the boat, excited about the clear, warm water, with the gas consumption of a bird (I've always had that) and she did that dive, had enormous fun and nothing went wrong. And I wouldn't do that dive, with that equipment and that gas in that place again today.

 

[Darnold9999]

Describes my first non class dive. Went beyond 100 feet on a steel 72 with the assistant instructor for the class as my buddy. There was stuff he wanted to see at that depth. Still a memorable dive 30 years later as we saw a salmon on the way up doing a free ascent. I have never seen one since or met anyone that has seen a salmon in open water.

At the time it was no big deal as there was no restriction on depth after the course and it was expected that you were qualified to do the dive after the course.

In retrospect it was a bit risky, but the training was pretty good and I was extremely comfortable in the water so if something had gone wrong I suspect we would have had no problems dealing with it.

Don't think you would get too many people today that you could say the same about after OW training. (A comment about the training not the people.)

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

I know it can be done and many do it all the time. I am just worried that if I did not speak my mind in advance and something happens then the legal implications of people saying I could have stopped it or I should have spoken up. Getting sued for just being there and as the courts would try to put it "You should have known better"

I think it is good that you are concerned about it; it is not necessarily an "Oh My God, I Have To Stop Them!" situation however.

It is always better to gradually work up to greater depths, and I'd be REALLY concerned if neither diver was expereinced enough to make a dive to 100'.... but with an experienced mentor, and a fairly competent new diver (basic skills in place, pays attention to dive leader) and good conditions, I don't see an enormous risk.

Best wishes.

 

[Walter]

I know it can be done and many do it all the time. I am just worried that if I did not speak my mind in advance and something happens then the legal implications of people saying I could have stopped it or I should have spoken up. Getting sued for just being there and as the courts would try to put it "You should have known better"

How can you legally stop them? Are you the legal guardian of one or both? Is it your boat?

 

[diver 85]

probably, no problem----depending on the newbie.....Most would be just fine...