Rebreathers (CCR) What Recreational divers need to know

[stuartv]

Speaking in a recreational context, yes.

The only people who are (generally) adopting a standardised gas share protocol for mixed teams are the DIR agencies.

As far as Type-R CCR diving is concerned
...
If on the other hand, you are diving with Type-T rebreather divers

Given the forum we're in, using the terms Type-R and Type-T without defining them might not be sufficient for some readers.

Also, it's worth noting that serious technical CCR divers can still be found on ordinary, recreational dive boats. So, you can't really infer what kind of CCR diver they are strictly by the boat you're on. Nor, necessarily, by looking at them, either.

I think, from a recreational, OC diver's perspective, the best bet is, if your buddy is a CCR diver, have a pre-dive chat to cover emergency procedures and OOA protocols. If you can't, don't buddy with them. If they can't give you gas, don't buddy with them. If it's simply a CCR diver on your boat, still try and have a chat with them. If you can't or don't, then assume they are not a source of gas for you in an OOA scenario.

And, be smart. Don't go OOA. Be a good buddy. If you have a failure that causes you to lose your gas, get gas from your buddy - not a random CCR diver you happen to see.

I dive OC with a CCR buddy. I know how to turn his BOV to OC, if I need to. Otherwise, we gear up and plan our (recreational) dives as if we're each going solo. I have my own redundant gas and he has his own. I have never given much thought to how I would get gas from him, but this thread has given me pause to think. Not so much for concern for myself, but I'm going to ask him about how he would handle it if we were on a recreational boat and some other diver came to him in an OOA panic.

 

[RainPilot]

think that it's pretty unlikely that you will see a mixed team with (1) a CCR diver with hypoxic dil and multiple bailout tanks, and (2) a recreational OC diver with no technical training or understanding of rebreathers. This discussion would be more for simpler dives.

Agree 100% but....

I have seen video of guys doing a 400’ wall dive off Grand Cayman, then doing some of their deco around a wreck at 60 or so feet. In that video there were OW divers on the same wreck, the CCR guys had dumped all their deep bailout on a line so the OW guys would see a group of CCR guys with one bailout tank, swimming around a wreck.

Not a common case for sure but it does happen. I imagine the same thing happens with a group of cave divers swimming around the cavern area during deco with OW people around.

 

[doctormike]

Why spend an hour before, an hour after, and deal with everything else involved in a CCR dive when you can slap on the same AL80, do the same dives, and not have to deal with everything else.

Because the setup and the cleaning are the most fun parts of the dive!

 

[bowlofpetunias]

@stuartv sounds like you and your buddy are well versed with each other's gear which is great. My concern is that other ow divers know to ask the questions if their ccr buddy isn't forth coming about things. Also I am concerned about the potential at our local dive sites where we see CCR divers fairly regularly on shallow dives where new and inexperienced divers are diving. The CCR divers are there taking advantage of the no bubbles to do photography.

That is why I put this question in Basic

 

[boulderjohn]

Given the forum we're in, using the terms Type-R and Type-T without defining them might not be sufficient for some readers.

This leads me to a plea to CCR divers discussing issues in general forums where the majority of readers will be non-CCR divers. An example would be the threads related to the death of Rob Stewart, where readers are eager to get a sense of what happened, but the people who do have an idea write as if their audience is comprised only of other CCR divers. This is what those posts read like to the general audience:

Whenever the BOV is in a QRX state, the CLB must always be DNR, or else a FLB is sure to occur. In the case of an FLB, the PDQ must be engaged PDQ, or else the diver will be DOA PDQ. That suggests to me that the SLP was not in proper XYZ mode, which is a sure indication of imminent LTD.​

It would be nice if more people would remember that their audience is not fully informed on all the abbreviations. The posts read like someone spilled the Scrabble tiles on the floor.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

This leads me to a plea to CCR divers discussing issues in general forums where the majority of readers will be non-CCR divers. An example would be the threads related to the death of Rob Stewart, where readers are eager to get a sense of what happened, but the people who do have an idea write as if their audience is comprised only of other CCR divers. This is what those posts read like to the general audience:

Whenever the BOV is in a QRX state, the CLB must always be DNR, or else a FLB is sure to occur. In the case of an FLB, the PDQ must be engaged PDQ, or else the diver will be DOA PDQ. That suggests to me that the SLP was not in proper XYZ mode, which is a sure indication of imminent LTD.​

It would be nice if more people would remember that their audience is not fully informed on all the abbreviations. The posts read like someone spilled the Scrabble tiles on the floor.

YES! That is why I thought this thread would be a good way of trying to get it simplified.. just the most basic stuff we need to know and we DO need to know!

 

[doctormike]

This leads me to a plea to CCR divers discussing issues in general forums where the majority of readers will be non-CCR divers. An example would be the threads related to the death of Rob Stewart, where readers are eager to get a sense of what happened, but the people who do have an idea write as if their audience is comprised only of other CCR divers. This is what those posts read like to the general audience:

Whenever the BOV is in a QRX state, the CLB must always be DNR, or else a FLB is sure to occur. In the case of an FLB, the PDQ must be engaged PDQ, or else the diver will be DOA PDQ. That suggests to me that the SLP was not in proper XYZ mode, which is a sure indication of imminent LTD.​

It would be nice if more people would remember that their audience is not fully informed on all the abbreviations. The posts read like someone spilled the Scrabble tiles on the floor.

This is woke AF.

 

[RainPilot]

So far it’s been ok in this thread. I believe I was the first person to use BOV, directly after using the full “bailout valve”

Something of interest to me is whether the rescue courses being taught have any CCR aspects taught in them. RAID does but that’s hardly surprising given the organisation’s origins. Are there CCR considerations in eg the PADI course?

There is a fair bit of difference in controlling an unconscious diver’s ascent if they are on a rebreather.

 

[boulderjohn]

Something of interest to me is whether the rescue courses being taught have any CCR aspects taught in them. RAID does but that’s hardly surprising given the organisation’s origins. Are there CCR considerations in eg the PADI course?

There is a fair bit of difference in controlling an unconscious diver’s ascent if they are on a rebreather.

There is nothing officially taught about rebreathers in a rescue class, and I would bet 90% of rescue instructors would not have a clue what to teach if they decided it needed to be added on its own.

As for surfacing the unconscious CCR diver, I was required to do it when I was working on my TDI tech instructor certification. It was not that TDI required it be done to a CCR diver; it was that I was required to surface an unconscious diver, and my instructor acted as the victim while he was using CCR. I have demonstrated this many times on open circuit, but when I tried to do it with him, I failed with the usual approach. I got behind him, reached around to hold his regulator in his mouth, and found I couldn't reach it--not even close. The CCR unit was just too big. I had to make up some sort of a front and under approach that I can't even describe here. If I had to teach it now, I would have no idea what to do.

 

[boulderjohn]

BTW, what I described as a typical post is also what I have sen when CCR people talk to non-CCR people about rebreathers. If you ask them to explain how something works, they immediately start babbling out abbreviations. They might as well explain it in Esperanto.