Recreational OW diving with long hoses (or the 'usual' r/h hose routing) ...

[Thalassamania]

John, while that may be the way that you read standards in their current form, when I refer to the "PADI way" I am referring to the positions that were clearly expressed by Cronin, Richardson, Hornsby, Graver, etc., when various changes were proposed or made: 50% reduction in course hours; all divers and students must be equipped with an AAS; "Golden Triangle"; primacy of the CESA; elimination of BB; relegating various skills and exercises to specific pool or ocean sessions, etc. There are other items, like requiring specific proprietary textbooks, that I'd describe as "NADSDS way" or the "SSI way."

 

[Diver0001]

Hey the pics are in my gallery (along with some comments) - feel free to comment them or whatever, I'd appreciate your input:
Equipment config. - octopus. - - ScubaBoard Gallery

I like that. How long is the hose?

R..

 

[roydude]

I like that. How long is the hose?

R..

Rather embarrassingly I don't know, I've had it for years and since I'm in the process of moving house I've got nothing lying around to measure it with! It's nothing 'fancy' though, just a standard occy hose length, bit longer than my primary - 40" I guess.

 

[eelnoraa]

I have a major concern about octo coming out from left side. What about the diver needs his/her own octo?? He/she will have a up side down octo. Most likely can't full purge water out of it to breath comfortable.

The advantage of the hogarthian long hose is that if you decide you need to be close to the receiver, you don't need to deploy the entire 7ft. Let the hose wrap around the canister, it will be much shorter, and gareentee in physical contact range.

I actually think being in physical contact maybe a bad thing. Here is my thought. If you and another diver hold onto each other, who is controlling the mutual buoyancy? One diver can be positive, other can be negative. If for some reason, you let go of each other, one will sink and one will float up. A long hose allow enough room for both diver to control his/her own buoyancy independently, much more likely to maintain over ascent rate. In the case of panic diver, I think even if you are in close physical contact, things may happen so far that you still can't control the panic diver.

 

[roydude]

I have a major concern about octo coming out from left side. What about the diver needs his/her own octo?? He/she will have a up side down octo. Most likely can't full purge water out of it to breath comfortable.

See the gallery Diver0001 links to there for an answer to the diver needing their own octopus. As an issue it's a total non-starter IMO (and that's with me testing it out, not just in theory).

Just pull it out and put it in ...

The advantage of the hogarthian long hose is ...

Hogarthian's a very different approach with it's own advantages. My pics just present my case that I think occy over the left shoulder is a big improvement on occy under the right arm.

 

[danvolker]

See the gallery Diver0001 links to there for an answer to the diver needing their own octopus. As an issue it's a total non-starter IMO (and that's with me testing it out, not just in theory).

Just pull it out and put it in ...

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Hogarthian's a very different approach with it's own advantages. My pics just present my case that I think occy over the left shoulder is a big improvement on occy under the right arm.

Wondering why you are using the term Hogathian, when the style of diving and gear configuaration being referred to by it is DIR.... While Bill Hogarth Main did come up with many ideas that lead to the much larger system and gear configurations of DIR, Hogarthian is misapplied for most discussions of gear configurations today with long hose primary and neclace reg...if this is about DIR being a hurtful name--indicating YOU are somehow not doing it right, this is not what the name implies at all....DIR was coined only to indicate that the WKPP divers were not dying like flys, because they were cave diving the RIGHT way ( there were many untrained or poorly trained divers dying like flies in big Florida caves in the 80's and 90's..leading to potential shut down of all caves for liability to landowner issues)...

Just saying, call a spade a spade. Hogarthian will only confuse the issue.

 

[roydude]

Wondering why you are using the term Hogathian ...

The advantage of the hogarthian long hose ...

Because it's what the person I was quoting called it, certainly no offence intended.

 

[Diver0001]

I have a major concern about octo coming out from left side. What about the diver needs his/her own octo?? He/she will have a up side down octo.

That's not what it looked like on the pictures. Whether the hose comes from the left or the right it's going to have a twist in it for either the donor or the receiver unless you're using a side venting regulator.

Back in the day most divers had them on the left. Somehow it's migrated to the right.... in fact, both ways work.

I actually think being in physical contact maybe a bad thing. Here is my thought. If you and another diver hold onto each other, who is controlling the mutual buoyancy?

Both.

One diver can be positive, other can be negative. If for some reason, you let go of each other, one will sink and one will float up.

Which is exactly why you want to hold on. Getting separated during air sharing will make matters worse.

In the case of panic diver, I think even if you are in close physical contact, things may happen so far that you still can't control the panic diver.

In my experience it's generally necessary to tackle a panicked diver to stop them from hurting themselves. Also, during air sharing panic isn't a highly likely scenario.

R..

---------- Post Merged at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:04 PM ----------

Wondering why you are using the term Hogathian, when the style of diving and gear configuaration being referred to by it is DIR....

Some personal agendas and revisionist history here. Bill Main deserves credit where credit is due and I don't think anyone was confused by the term.

R..

 

[TSandM]

I was in the pool last night with our OW class. The required skills were hovering, mask-off swim, and gear removal/replacement, so we had a lot of time for free-swimming. I decided to get everybody to share air with me in midwater at some point. Most students did fine, but one simply could NOT find her octo within the time I was willing to sit and "blow little bubbles". It just brought home to me, again, how good the donate the primary system is in doing the one thing that is absolutely critical in an out-of-air event, and that's getting gas to the distressed diver. I, of course, was not distressed, having initiated the drill when I was two feet away from the student -- but in a real out of gas emergency, if I had been desperate for something to breathe, watching my expected rescuer fumble around with her gear would not have gone on long before I simply removed the visible source of gas (the one she was breathing).

 

[boulderjohn]

...but in a real out of gas emergency, if I had been desperate for something to breathe, watching my expected rescuer fumble around with her gear would not have gone on long before I simply removed the visible source of gas (the one she was breathing).

Or you might have gone for the alternate yourself in the first place. In each of the cases I know about personally (from being nearby when one happened and from hearing friends describe them), the OOA diver went for the alternate without signalling. That is, I believe, the reason that BSAC teaches to allow the OOA diver to take the alternate instead of waiting for a donation.