Relegated to the back of the dive group

[AdivingBel]

My wife and I dived independently at Anthony's Key. We did chat with the DM/guide prior to splashing. No problems. YMMV depending on your DM, group, and experience.

 

[stevensamler]

A couple of years ago a group of us went diving in Roatan. One of our friends has a long standing relationship with a particular dive op. The skills of our dive group range from beginner to advanced. I enjoy slow dives, exploring reefs and taking pics. While respecting the buddy system, it always seems that I am the last one in the group. So what is the problem? Our dive master for the week in Roatan singled me out to act as "the tail of the group". Ordinarily not an issue except that after following everybody else through swim throughs and looking under coral heads, the sand was so mucked up that it was impossible to get a decent photo. During a surface interval I explained to him my goals of getting some more photographs and not to be assigned to stay in the back of the group. He explained that he LEADS the dive and cannot keep an eye out for the beginner divers at all times. Thus, I was yet again relegated to the back of the group.

We are returning to Roatan in a few weeks. I know my friend wants to use this dive op again. I just want to know what other divers think of this. Am I being petty? Is this common practice? If this annoys any of fellow Scubaboarders, how would you handle this? Thanks in advance.

buddy up with a teammate that have the same goals/objectives as you and go dive.

 

[CraigMcD]

Had a similar experience last year diving cenotes in Cancun. Those dives are strictly single file, follow the leader dives...

My group of 4 did a bouyancy check at the cenote entrance and the DM pointed to me and said, "you're tailgunner"...it was a little irritating to get silted periodically and the halocline was really stirred up by the time I got to it...just managed it as best as I could by hanging back a little more than the recommended 6 ft gaps when conditions permitted...

The worst part (and this wasn't the DM's fault) was we were following the rule of 1/3rds on air because of the overhead environment...start at 3k psi, turn at 2k psi, back at the entrance at 1k psi...2 of the guys in the group breathed so fast it was like their regs were free-flowing...we were back at the entrance with them at 800-900 psi...I had 1800+ psi left at the end of the dive... it was really irritating to have the dives cut short like that (it happened on both dives that day).

Just chalked it up to the downside of diving with unknown groups. I also feel a little compassion for for some of these DM's...the level of knuckle-headedness they deal with is shocking...I'm pretty sure that at least 1 member of my group lied his butt off about his experience and it showed up in everything he did...although I wish the DM had scrubbed his dive, I also "get" that they will use help where they can find it...

In a more open environment, I would have, as others have said, fanned out a little.

 

[KeithG]

A couple of years ago a group of us went diving in Roatan. One of our friends has a long standing relationship with a particular dive op. The skills of our dive group range from beginner to advanced. I enjoy slow dives, exploring reefs and taking pics. While respecting the buddy system, it always seems that I am the last one in the group. So what is the problem? Our dive master for the week in Roatan singled me out to act as "the tail of the group". Ordinarily not an issue except that after following everybody else through swim throughs and looking under coral heads, the sand was so mucked up that it was impossible to get a decent photo. During a surface interval I explained to him my goals of getting some more photographs and not to be assigned to stay in the back of the group. He explained that he LEADS the dive and cannot keep an eye out for the beginner divers at all times. Thus, I was yet again relegated to the back of the group.

We are returning to Roatan in a few weeks. I know my friend wants to use this dive op again. I just want to know what other divers think of this. Am I being petty? Is this common practice? If this annoys any of fellow Scubaboarders, how would you handle this? Thanks in advance.

You need to solve the underlying problem and then no issues. If you insist on doing group cluster dives, then someone has to be last.

During our first few years we did not know any better and thought cluster diving was normal. We did not enjoy them. Since then we have been very aware of group versus buddy dive ops. We highly favour non group situations. Every time we stray back to the cluster world we shake our heads - how could WE be so stupid to have chosen this op?

So: go places whe you can buddy dive and give the DM a big shrug, smile and head shake when they ask you to do part of their job. Not my monkey, not my circus. We are diving over there.

 

[uncfnp]

You need to solve the underlying problem and then no issues. If you insist on doing group cluster dives, then someone has to be last.

During our first few years we did not know any better and thought cluster diving was normal. We did not enjoy them. Since then we have been very aware of group versus buddy dive ops. We highly favour non group situations. Every time we stray back to the cluster world we shake our heads - how could WE be so stupid to have chosen this op?

So: go places whe you can buddy dive and give the DM a big shrug, smile and head shake when they ask you to do part of their job. Not my monkey, not my circus. We are diving over there.

And my preference is solo but lets face it, this isn't always an option and I won't boycott dive locales that ban it if its some place I want to dive.

Group dives are not ideal but for some regions its the standard and I can live with it. Actually I don't particularly mind them since as others have said a savvy diver can usually find a way to make this work for them. But I have never been assigned a dive order except for cenote and cave.

What I hate is group ascents and avoid them except under extreme circumstances.

 

[mmmbelows]

Honestly think about the reality of it all. What's going to happen when you don't adhere to the dive master's suggestion? Is he going to take you aside on the dive boat afterwards and slap you around? In reality if he wants you to go last, you don't, you just shrug your shoulders if he says anything to you later and I guess you spend his tip goes toward some drinks for you instead of him.

 

[TMHeimer]

You need to solve the underlying problem and then no issues. If you insist on doing group cluster dives, then someone has to be last.

During our first few years we did not know any better and thought cluster diving was normal. We did not enjoy them. Since then we have been very aware of group versus buddy dive ops. We highly favour non group situations. Every time we stray back to the cluster world we shake our heads - how could WE be so stupid to have chosen this op?

So: go places whe you can buddy dive and give the DM a big shrug, smile and head shake when they ask you to do part of their job. Not my monkey, not my circus. We are diving over there.

Agree with all here. I had one experience with a group/DM lead dive. One guy screwed up and my buddy and I (bringing up rear) were separated. We tooled around a bit more by ourselves and surfaced, to find that the DM was searching for the bonehead who broke the "line" going off completely on his own. That's my one and ONLY experience with this sort of dive. Anyone who reads SB and still signs up for group dives must like it (regardless of where you are in the line).

 

[mmmbelows]

Agree with all here. I had one experience with a group/DM lead dive. One guy screwed up and my buddy and I (bringing up rear) were separated. We tooled around a bit more by ourselves and surfaced, to find that the DM was searching for the bonehead who broke the "line" going off completely on his own. That's my one and ONLY experience with this sort of dive. Anyone who reads SB and still signs up for group dives must like it (regardless of where you are in the line).

I really don't even understand this labeling of dives as diving in a line, I've dived for 20 years as a group but never a line. I've never kept an order on a dive, buddy teams constantly shuffle during dives, I don't witness any head to fin in line diving ever, divers are spread out laterally but side to side and up and down to some degree, when it comes to swim thrus if there are multiple ones on a dive the order isn't regimented and kept the same, sometimes I might be in the front some times I might be in the back. If everybody is diving in a regimented line you all need to let me know cause for 20 years I've been oblivious to it.

 

[Aguablanco1]

Honestly think about the reality of it all. What's going to happen when you don't adhere to the dive master's suggestion? Is he going to take you aside on the dive boat afterwards and slap you around? In reality if he wants you to go last, you don't, you just shrug your shoulders if he says anything to you later and I guess you spend his tip goes toward some drinks for you instead of him.

Exactly! My friend and I were diving with AKR form a cruise ship a few years ago. The DM's briefing included that he would give a signal for all of us to surface. When he banged his tank, at about 30 minutes into the dive, we looked at our gauges and both of us had over 1500 left. Buddy and I looked at each other and continued the dive for ~another 20 minutes and still surfaced with 800+. I received a stern tongue lashing for holding the group up and possibly delaying the boat's afternoon trip. We went in last on the second dive per DM. He admonished us both to surface when he gave the signal. I responded that we would see him at around 500, which we did. The lesson is that I am not paying to dive the other divers profiles, I am paying to dive my profile. They weren't happy but what are they going to do?
RichH

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I really don't even understand this labeling of dives as diving in a line, I've dived for 20 years as a group but never a line. I've never kept an order on a dive, buddy teams constantly shuffle during dives, I don't witness any head to fin in line diving ever, divers are spread out laterally but side to side and up and down to some degree, when it comes to swim thrus if there are multiple ones on a dive the order isn't regimented and kept the same, sometimes I might be in the front some times I might be in the back. If everybody is diving in a regimented line you all need to let me know cause for 20 years I've been oblivious to it.

I think I know the dive sites the OP is discussing, and they are swim-throughs where you have to go in a line, because there simply isn't room for two divers to swim side-by-side. I can also understand the desire to go through relatively early, as the lighting at the end of the swim-through is dramatic, and would make for a very nice photo ... but not if the divers in front of you kick up the bottom and create a lot of backscatter. It's frustrating for someone carrying a camera when they have an opportunity for a dramatic picture ... particularly in a place they might never come to again ... and the conditions prevent them from getting a decent shot. Particularly so when those conditions are avoidable by simply being first in line, or at least not have to come behind divers who don't have a lot of fin control and leave a mess in their wake.

The simplest solution, really, is to park yourself directly behind the dive guide ... be the second person through. The guides are usually skilled enough to not make a mess of it, and then you can get your picture.

In this person's case, the guide is relegating a role to him ("cleanup diver") that he shouldn't have to deal with. The easiest solution is to just say no, and position yourself ahead of the divers who can't make it through the swim-through without making a mess.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)