Repair training

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Scottri:
Shops don't sell them to you because they don't want the liability. I won't sell them either because if they are incorrectly installed or the reg was not rebuilt correctly people can be hurt or killed and who would know who actually repaired the reg? How do I cover my own a## from someone doing something stupid other than to not enable them?

I'm sure that you and many others in the scuba retail business believe that, probably because it is what they want to believe. Thankfully, that myth is starting to crack. Maybe Larry carries extra insurance just so he can profit from that mostly untapped market as he builds his customer base and his reputation.
 
Scottri:
I've taken Mares, Poseidon and Oceanic classes and they state pretty clearly that we are NOT to sell repair kits to the public.

Are you saying it is a "word of mouth" thing put out in classes as opposed to a component of the dealer agreement?
 
I don't care one way or the other about selling parts kits. I'd sell them in a heartbeat but I don't want violate a vendor agreement so that a few people can rebuild their own regs. It's not a myth. Call any manufacturer with the exception of Dive Rite and ask them to sell you a repair kit and let me know how that works out for you. It's not word of mouth. It's a vendor agreement. It's not about what I believe. If you want to tear down and rebuild your reg have at it. I don't care.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to sell you whatever you want but are bound by either liability or vendor agreements. If you can buy the kit from ScubaToys more power to you. He is a great guy and runs a good business.

If you want to invest in a couple of hundred dollars in specialized tools for each brand of reg you own so you can rebuild them once a year plus pay the cost of the kit not to mention the test equipment and equipment to properly clean them that's fine by me.

Why don't you go ahead and print up some VIP stickers and buy some metal stamps to "hydro" your own tanks while your at it. The whole hydro and vip thing is all part of the conspiracy.
 
Scottri:
I've taken Mares, Poseidon and Oceanic classes and they state pretty clearly that we are NOT to sell repair kits to the public. Shops don't sell them to you because they don't want the liability. I won't sell them either because if they are incorrectly installed or the reg was not rebuilt correctly people can be hurt or killed and who would know who actually repaired the reg? How do I cover my own a## from someone doing something stupid other than to not enable them?

For God's sake don't sell me a spear gun. If I shoot myself in the foot I will sue you!
 
Yeah because a speargun is life support. Have you ever seen some of the stupid reasons people have sued dive shops? Like I said, I'd sell you the kit if it were up to me but I'm not willing to put everything I own on the line so some fool can save $50.

But of course you have probably never rebuilt a reg but that doesn't matter because there is nothing to it right?
 
Let me see if I understand this.

A shop works on my regulator and it fails on a dive and I am killed.
They are LESS liable than if I had done the work myself?

Nonesense!
Just because the makers keep saying it doesn't make it true.

It is ALL about maintaining a monopoly on parts sales and controlling prices. It is supposed to be illegal but without effective enforcement the laws are useless.

We went through this in cars, car repair and parts sales years ago.
Cars are FAR more dangerous than scuba regulators.
 
Why manufacturers won't allow the sale of part to the public is their business. I'm not defending them. I'm trying to explain why I follow their rules and why I have to. Can you honestly say that if everyone was allowed to rebuild their regs nobody in the scuba industry would get sued? Please. I know of an instructor that was threatened with a suit because a student slipped and fell on the way to a dive site. Not wearing dive gear and not engaged in the act of diving in any way.

I didn't create the enviroment. I have to live in it. If I had my way I'd sell you the parts kits with a happy heart. I don't care what people do with their equipment but I'm not going to break the rules because some people want me to.
 
Your right, the manufacturer/distributor will not sell me repair parts. Nor will he sell me a regulator. I have to get my goods from retailers, not wholesalers. And I'm sure some retailers believe the liability card is real. And threats of suits and actual suits will likely occur. I'm somewhat surprised we have not heard of any yet. But, for the most part, the problem is simply momentum. Shops didn't do it yesterday, they're not going to do it today, and they don't plan on doing it tomorrow. Those kinds of shops don't get much of my business anymore, nor much business from any of my buddies. I've been servicing my family's regs for about 6 years now. It is a bit more complex than changing spark plugs, but not as difficult as rebuilding a carburator. If someone would not think of doing their own brake job (and 95% won't) then they probably should not be servicing their regulator. Just Brakes is still a booming business even with Auto Zone selling brake parts to anyone who wants them. And yes, tools are an additional expense, but not that much. Beyond what I had in my tool chest to service my cars and any other thing my wife would like fixed around the house, I spent no more than $100 on tools just for scuba (and I made/improvised a few more myself). The high dollar cleaners and adjusting tools that every professional should have (but some don't) may let you do it a little better and clearly faster, but the DIYer can do a perfectly adequate job without them. How many small LDSs have you seen with a flow bench. Of the 6 local shops in this area in the past 10 years, none had a flow bench. Larger shop in the big city had one though. Impressive but it still took 2 trips to get my Mk2/R190 right.

Seven years ago, documentation and parts were hard to come by. Now both are fairly common on ebay and many other sources are opening up. A couple LDSs have told me there is nothing in dealer agreements for Mares, Poseiden, Zeagle, or Scubapro restricting authorized retailers for selling parts. But I understand, it is different, it is new, and it is not without conserns that such sales may be made. I'm quite sure that if anyone could walk into Scuba Zone and buy parts for any regulator, shade tree scuba mechanics would pop up everywhere and provide some very serious competition to authorized shops and their technicians. With the increasing competition for retail scuba goods caused by more and more internet sellers, hitting many shops with even more competition in that area of service would cause more shops to close their doors.
Slow change in this area is probably a good thing as that allows all to adjust without too big and too quick of a shock. But the 1990 business model is just not going to continue working.
 
Buy one brand of reg across the board, and the parts to service them are now "cheap" compared to having some schmoe at a dive shop putting my regs together...

As most expierenced divers have found, alot of the "techs" who are working at the dive shops are not exactly the brightest bulbs with the most burn time... Do I personally want to entrust my life to a guy who rebuilds regs as "quick as possible" because he would rather be selling gear on the floor because it pays more?

No thanks. I'll stick to my skills and what I was taught for servicing my own equipment due to the fact that it is MY life at stake. Funny how much more important things become when you know that if you screw up it is YOU who will pay...

If being a tech at a dive shop paid more and required an engineering degree, I may be more apt to have someone else service my gear, until then...
 
I think if the manufactures really cared we'd see proper service courses with standards,testing and licensing.As it is most folks that are servicing attened a seminar and now have a piece of paper stating their attendence.I know and know of several very good service guys but most I've come across are parts changers who don't fixs regs but keep changing parts till they work(this sometimes requires several visits) .Should everyone service regs?No but then not everyone services their own cars.There are several test along the way when servicing a)taking it apart 2)geting all the parts back in 3)a few simple test before you enter the water.
Could it be that some of the service folks have to work real hard at it and assume that it will be hard for all?
Some food for thought 1)Why is that there is no license required....all sorts of trades that don't involve lifesupport require people doing it comercial to have a licence?
2)Has anyone ever been to a service course where someone failed and was told that the manufacture would not allow them to service their product?

Eric
 

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