Repair training

[DiveGolfSki]

Uhh Guys, let's leave the whole product liability issue aside ... although it may be consideration a manufacturer uses to limit the sale to "authorized repair" individuals. I'm not a lawyer but whether or not a shop or manufacturer can/would be sued for a defective reg (either due a repair or otherwise) is a complicated topic.

Can it simply be said that manufacturers choose to award the whole repair business (training, parts, etc.) to those shops who handle their equipment as way to increase the revenues for the shops AND maintain brand loyalty?

 

[CWMurf]

Yeah because a speargun is life support. Have you ever seen some of the stupid reasons people have sued dive shops? Like I said, I'd sell you the kit if it were up to me but I'm not willing to put everything I own on the line so some fool can save $50.

But of course you have probably never rebuilt a reg but that doesn't matter because there is nothing to it right?

a) I can only imagine some of the stupid reasons people have sued dive shops. I have seen several undeserving individuals and entities sued for "stupid reasons". We fear what we do not know. Therefore I would urge you to educate yourself on personal protective strategies. Talk to your attorney about entity structuring and asset protection. If he is worth half of what you're paying him he will enlighten you on how not to be a victim. Then you can make your business decisions based on fact rather than fear.

b) I am not a fool! Again, educate yourself. Don't lash out just because you do not understand! My reasons for persuing DIY may not be financial in nature at all!

c) You are correct. I have up to this point never fully rebuilt a reg. AND, you are correct, there is nothing to it! ANYTHING is easy once you know how. In my industry we use the phrase, "A little bit of knowing beats a whole lot of guessing!"

I think the original point was that some people would like the access to the information and equipment to do it right the first time. I repair elevators for a living (think of me the next time some FOOL runs up to the elevator and throws his hand in the closing doors to try to catch a ride, but you have probably never done that, right?) I can figure out and correct any problem with any elevator. I can have parts made by a machine shop and can design and manufacture any electronic part the elevator may need. It would be easier with third party documentation and replacement parts. Easier still with OEM parts and training.

I am no fool because I would prefer to service my own life support equipment. I have seen some "trained and experienced professionals" do some pretty shoddy work. Perhaps it is the fool who leaves his life in the hands of some stranger or aquaintance just because he is a factory trained technician!

How do I cover my own a## from someone doing something stupid other than to not enable them?

How about starting by leaving other people to make their own decisions. You're not their daddy. People do stupid things every day. There are ways to protect yourself that do not hinder anyone's right to the persuit of happiness.

 

[Tom Winters]

Well, so here's the thing after all this *****ing and moaning - if you want to fix your own gear, go ahead and do it. Use Dive Rite regs if you want to easily get parts and manuals; Peter Built tools for specific applications or see what parts Larry at Scuba Toys will sell you. He mentioned selling Zeagle parts although Scott Zeagle on this board had some problems with supporting independent repairs.
Get Vance's book for a good overview on whatever you want to fix.
http://www.scubatools.com/
http://www.diveriteexpress.com/library/manuals.shtml
http://www.airspeedpress.com/

 

[Diver_81]

Look you guys i am a service tec for my LDS and you can't go selling parts to the public for a few reasons. 1) The libablity is going to screw all of you right from the get go. If an LDS sold parts for service to Bob Smith and Bob Smith, Died after serviceing his own gear his family would more then likely sue the LDS and then the part manufactors them self b/c this is the way the world has become at this day in age.
2) The "tech" is sent to class to learn why and what to look for in serviceing a reg and octo set. not everyone has this training and this sets the diver apart from the "tech".

I am not saying that i would be against selling parts to customers (aside from a loss of my job) but it would turn in to a "witch" hunt with all the lawsuits.

 

[bruehlt]

Look you guys i am a service tec for my LDS and you can't go selling parts to the public for a few reasons. 1) The libablity is going to screw all of you right from the get go. If an LDS sold parts for service to Bob Smith and Bob Smith, Died after serviceing his own gear his family would more then likely sue the LDS and then the part manufactors them self b/c this is the way the world has become at this day in age.
2) The "tech" is sent to class to learn why and what to look for in serviceing a reg and octo set. not everyone has this training and this sets the diver apart from the "tech".

I am not saying that i would be against selling parts to customers (aside from a loss of my job) but it would turn in to a "witch" hunt with all the lawsuits.

As stated before - how is this different that if the reg failed AFTER being serviced at the shop? What sort of lawsuit would happen than?? Its a double edge sword, if the shop services the reg - are they not liable if it fails? That's a poor excuse for an arguement.

I agree 100% that the dive industry is similar to the "good ole' boy's club." If you ain't one of the good ole' boys, you ain't going to get the goods!

 

[CWMurf]

As stated before - how is this different that if the reg failed AFTER being serviced at the shop? What sort of lawsuit would happen than?? Its a double edge sword, if the shop services the reg - are they not liable if it fails? That's a poor excuse for an arguement.

I agree 100% that the dive industry is similar to the "good ole' boy's club." If you ain't one of the good ole' boys, you ain't going to get the goods!

Here, here!

The "tech" is sent to class to learn why and what to look for in serviceing a reg and octo set. not everyone has this training and this sets the diver apart from the "tech".

I think that's why some divers had the interest in getting the training in the first place.

 

[DiveGolfSki]

Look you guys i am a service tec for my LDS and you can't go selling parts to the public for a few reasons. 1) The libablity is going to screw all of you right from the get go. If an LDS sold parts for service to Bob Smith and Bob Smith, Died after serviceing his own gear his family would more then likely sue the LDS and then the part manufactors them self b/c this is the way the world has become at this day in age.

Perhaps but if you read most OEM's warranties, they're laden with all sorts of caveats. Here's the limitations clauses from Oceanic:

... Service or modifications by any person or persons other than an Authorized Oceanic Dealership voids the warranty.

or how about this:

In no event will Oceanic, its Authorized International Distributors, and Authorized Dealers be held responsible or liable for any personal injuries resulting from the use of the covered equipment, or for any other damages, whether direct, indirect, incidental, or consequential; even if Oceanic has been advised of such damages.

Yeah, I know this does not stop anyone from suing nor can this be used as a defense BUT as I said earlier, I'm not a lawyer and this thread seems to be going in the wrong direction (i.e., product liability).

Thanks Tom W for the links.

 

[MikeFerrara]

What BUNK we read every time this subject comes up!

As some of you know I owned a dive shop for a few years. I've read and, unfortunately, signed a few dealer agreements in that time. Not from all manufacturers mind you but quit a few. Never once have I seen a dealer agreement mention the selling of parts one way or the other. I always thought it was forbiden too untill I read the agreements.

If the reluctance to sell parts had anything to do with liability you'd think they'd be afraid to sell automotive parts and repair manuals huh? It seems to me that I heard someplace that the auto makers tried the same thing and it took a law suit to change it.

Most divers are happy enough to just do as the shop tells them and this bunk about it being life support equipment and needing all this special training sounds reasonable enough at first. Oh, the special training, I've become a certified tech for a manufacturers line as soon as I handed over a check for my opening order. LOL. I've had other reps show up at the shop with one of their many regs/pieces of equipment, take it apart, put it together and leave me a mnanual and a certificate for the wall. BTW, the repair manuals usually contain step by step rebuild instructions (fully illustrated) that a TOTAL idiot could follow even if they had never laid eyes on a scuba reg in their life!

Still, divers will have to make themselves heard with their dollars. Buy from the manufacturers and stores that don't try to railroad you. I don't know about the rest of you but I own probably close to 20 regs and even more tanks. I'm not about to pay some one else to service them. Besides, the only time I've ever had trouble with regs failing was back when I did let some one else service them.

Most of my regs are Zeagles (or zeagle sold apeks) and when I baught them I was a dealer. I think I have enough parts to last me a while but I'm real disappointed to read scott's attitude. I wonder if they'd still sell me parts or if they really think I'd spend almost $2000 just to get all my regs serviced for another season of diving. I also wonder if they think I'm stupid enough to let one of these dive shops service my regs and then go into a cave with them. And...if any one at Zeagle would like to discuss the track record of the repair tech at the shop closest to me authorized to service Zeagle regs, I'd love to. In fact, how about we do it right here on the forum! I don't know if I'll ever need to buy another reg but if I do it will not be from a manufacturer who refuses to sell be parts or from a manufacturer who won't sell me parts. I like my Zeagle regs but they're not good enough to get me to put up with that nonsense. It's that simple.

BTW, the diverite reg isn't half bad. I have one of those too. I think it's a bit overpriced for what it is but it's ok.

 

[CWMurf]

Oh, the special training, I've become a certified tech for a manufacturers line as soon as I handed over a check for my opening order. LOL. I've had other reps show up at the shop with one of their many regs/pieces of equipment, take it apart, put it together and leave me a mnanual and a certificate for the wall. BTW, the repair manuals usually contain step by step rebuild instructions (fully illustrated) that a TOTAL idiot could follow even if they had never laid eyes on a scuba reg in their life!

THANK YOU! I thought so but didn't have any proof.

...if any one at Zeagle would like to discuss the track record of the repair tech at the shop closest to me authorized to service Zeagle regs, I'd love to. In fact, how about we do it right here on the forum!

I don't have any stories of poor service but I would sure like to hear them, and the stories of exceptional service.

 

[MikeFerrara]

THANK YOU! I thought so but didn't have any proof.




I don't have any stories of poor service but I would sure like to hear them, and the stories of exceptional service.

For the record, I do know some techs who could and would provide good service. I like to think that when I owned a shop I took care of people and their regs. I also helped a few get started doing their own. The thing is that I want the choice. As it is right now it's being a dealer or a "delaer blessed" that makes you a service tech.